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Why is there any fee at all... $99 per developer is a rounding error for Apple, it simply doesn't matter one bit. Nor should you be limited to compiling on App
by Alupis 3y ago
Why is there any fee at all... $99 per developer is a rounding error for Apple, it simply doesn't matter one bit.
Nor should you be limited to compiling on Apple hardware. These limitations are policy decisions, and just serve to reinforce the notion that Apple doesn't care about developers (hilarious for the company that pretty much invented app stores!). A lot like it was a ToS violation to run MacOS in a virtualization environment - why be so developer hostile?
Nobody can soundly argue these artificial barriers have increased app quality on all the Apple platforms either. These barriers... just exist, just because.
- konschubert 3y agoThe fee is to prevent spam.
- Alupis 3y agoSpam could be prevented with a listing fee if you want the app to list in the App Store. Spam is prevented by app reviews and policy enforcement, on the App store. A developer annual fee doesn't prevent spam. It's just there to be hostile to developers...
- blululu 3y agoI get that paying for stuff is a pain but apps are a business and there are a ton of expenses involved with any business (a websites, databases, cloud hosting are also not free). Having app reviews done by a human is fundamentally expensive. Given that a develop can easily submit a few apps in a year, I'm not really sure that Apple is even making much more than break even on the annual $100 fee. If they are it is small potatoes compared to the 15-33% fees on sales.
- dingledork69 3y agoNot all of them. Did you forget that open source software exists? Or just good old hobbyists.
- dev_tty01 3y agoI don't understand this. Why is it that we pay for the computer, storage, cloud services, etc. for a hobby but a $99 fee is somehow terrible? People spend thousands of dollars on all kinds of hobbies. Even if you get someone else to pay for the computer etc., a $99 dollar hobby is ridiculously cheap.
- dingledork69 3y agoI started programming when I was 13. I did not have anywhere close near $99 to spend, so Apple was completely inaccessible to me. Eventually I did make a few thousand from an Android app at 16, which was huge. But at that point I had moved on to other things and never wound up giving Apple their $99. And I also didn't generate several thousand dollars in revenue which they could've taxed 30% of.
- brookst 3y agoAnd that's unfortunate, and Apple's loss. But for every person like you, that fee probably keeps out orders of magnitude more abuse, spam, trolls, other nonsense. Apple isn't dumb (their evilness is debatable). I'm sure they have tested price points and giving free dev accounts and looked at results. If it produced more harm than good, they'd remove it.
- dingledork69 3y agoAnd yet somehow Android, Windows, Linux and even MacOS itself all manage to be just fine while still allowing sideloading. Of course MacOS is going down the same dark path by hiding the install option in an obscure menu and lying to the user about potential security issues, but still. iOS is the only platform that supposedly NEEDS to extract this fee. Stop believing Apple's lies, they've been grifting everyone for years.
- type0 3y ago> a $99 dollar hobby is ridiculously cheap. Yeah, go and tell that to hobbyist programmers in any non wealthy country
- Apocryphon 3y agoThey’re not arguing against all fees, just a fee that makes more sense (you pay per listing).
- type0 3y agoThat's not their goal, they want you to be "invested" i.e locked in their ecosystem, as a user and as a developer.
- recursive 3y agoWhy should apps be required to be businesses? A lot of the apps I use are not businesses. Sometimes people make good stuff just for fun, or any other reason.
- ryandrake 3y agoThis is a great question. Apple's fee basically says: "Software development should either be money-losing (developer pays Apple and releases a free app), or it should be a business (developer pays Apple and attempts to make a profit)." There is no room for developers who want to release pure hobby apps with no expectation of commerce. I don't release any of the iOS apps I write. First of all, I would never charge for them, and therefore I cannot justify paying $X/year for the ability to release them. So I do them for my own pleasure and education and that's it.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago> hobby apps with no expectation of commerce 99% of this in the real world is spam. Not because it’s malicious. But the app is built for the developer, not the user. That’s not Apple’s MO.
- fsflover 3y agoHow many percents of the Linux repositories is spam? What about F-Droid?
- Alupis 3y agoJust because someone cobbles together some code doesn't mean it's going to be listed in the App Store. iOS isn't the only Apple operating system either. There is no "anti-spam" argument that can hold water.
- pdntspa 3y agoThen we should have an alternate means of installing applications. Like sideloading. Whatever happened to the EU Digital Markets act? That was supposed to force apple's hand.
- pdntspa 3y agoblah blah blah blah people make software for fun too... This industry has forgotten its roots.
- Euphorbium 3y agoIt works totally perfect, just go to the garbage dump that is android store and compare.
- idle_zealot 3y agoSpeaking as someone who regularly uses both iOS and Android (Pixel) phones: The App store and Play store are indistinguishable in terms of app quality. Both are absolutely filled with garbage, and the only way to find anything worthwhile is to search off-platform, then punch your desired app name into the store's search.
- Alupis 3y agoNot to mention the Play Store requires $25 per listed app - removing the "anti-spam" argument some are making. The issue is paying $99 to even be allowed to think about making an app - plus the arbitrary requirement it must be built using a Mac. Not all apps are commercial, and not all apps generate revenue, and not all apps are even on the App Store! It's just an absurd requirement. Stockholm Syndrome, anyone?
- lapcat 3y ago> Not to mention the Play Store requires $25 per listed app This is also false: https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answer/6112435 https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answ... https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answer/112622 https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answ... I say "also" because you were also wrong about the Apple Developer Program: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36235313 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36235313
- Alupis 3y agoGetting nit picky I see. Yes, it does appear I was incorrect about it being a per app fee, which makes this model even better than I had realized.
- tcmart14 3y agoThis is an interesting idea, but I can see it being either good or bad, especially depending on the fee. Lets say Apple does this, its $25 per year to list an app on the app store. If you have less than 4 apps, its a deal. If you have 4 apps, its a wash. But if your an indie developer with 6 apps, not it is costing you more. Of course, if they went this route, I guess they could offer both pricing. $99 for developer and you get, theoretically, unlimited app entries, but you can also pay per app.
- Alupis 3y agoThis isn't an idea - this is how it works everywhere except Apple. You pay for the benefits of being listed in a curated app store - such as Play Store, Microsoft Store, Steam store, etc. The benefits include discovery, audience, services (billing, distribution), etc. But you don't pay anything for the privilege of making an app. That's just absurd.
- lockhouse 3y agoIt doesn't cost anything (other than hardware costs) to make a hobby app for personal use on Apple platforms either. They charge for the App Store and notarization (app signing).
- ramesh31 3y ago>Nobody can soundly argue these artificial barriers have increased app quality on all the Apple platforms either. One quick look at App Store vs. Play store will tell you differently.
- fsflover 3y agoHow about a quick look at F-Droid?
- Alupis 3y agoThe fee was in place before the App Store even existed. Take a look at how little Mac software there is compared to Windows...
- jjice 3y agoWindows also has a much larger desktop market share and has in the past, plus it's more common for businesses to use Windows machines.
- lapcat 3y ago> The fee was in place before the App Store even existed. This is false. The Developer ID program began in 2012. Before then, Mac software didn't need to be signed with an Apple certificate.
- 3y ago
- irrational 3y agoI'd like to see it as there is no fee if your app is available for free (completely free - no subscriptions, no credits, no paying on a third party website, etc.), but, if you want to charge money, then you have to pay the $99 fee.
- graderjs 3y agoI guess it's like an entrance fee to stop the club getting overcrowded. Apple Developer support forums, apple developer support, the App Review process...all these things take resources and are probably already overloaded (or pushed to limit). The fee helps keep check of that, like charging people for your side-project development work. Sure, you could do it for free (as you have a main income) but charging clients helps you manage and prioritize your workload. Incidentally I've made back my Apple Developer fee in app revenue, so that's cool. Ha ha ha! :)