7 ms·

I think population growth is the main factor for why prescribed burns of forests have dwindled. We have cities and towns that have expanded into forests and hig

I think population growth is the main factor for why prescribed burns of forests have dwindled. We have cities and towns that have expanded into forests and high-risk fire areas. Maybe we shouldn't have ever allowed this, but it happened, and now we're stuck with it (good luck getting people to move out).

version_five 3y ago
That may be true in California. In northern Canada there are very few populated places, I believe these are mostly in complete wilderness
olivermarks 3y ago
Environmental fashion became obsessed with trees as 'the lungs of the planet' despite ocean phytoplankton processing most of the air we breath. We have been conditioned to believe humans are destroying the fragile planet but ironically the reality is that we are increasingly irresponsible stewards of it, flying in the face of thousands of years of evidence.
- DayDollar 3y ago
  Well, that plancton will die off, when the oceans get accidic.. so it will be the trees only in the long run.
- TheOtherHobbes 3y ago
  We're killing the phytoplankton too. https://medium.com/climate-conscious/how-the-loss-of-phytoplankton-could-lead-to-our-demise-8f9c91b937a8 https://medium.com/climate-conscious/how-the-loss-of-phytopl...
- sampo 3y ago
  > ocean phytoplankton processing most of the air we breath. This is not true. Ocean photosynthesis produces about 50% of the oxygen in the atmosphere, but ocean respiration also consumes about the same amount. The oceans are about oxygen neutral. Same goes for the other 50%, but in land ecosystems. https://theconversation.com/humans-will-always-have-oxygen-to-breathe-but-we-cant-say-the-same-for-ocean-life-165148 https://theconversation.com/humans-will-always-have-oxygen-t...
  - olivermarks 3y ago
    https://www.nationalgeographic.org/activity/save-the-plankton-breathe-freely/ https://www.nationalgeographic.org/activity/save-the-plankto...
    - morsch 3y ago
      https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/ocean-oxygen.html https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/ocean-oxygen.html
      - olivermarks 3y ago
        'Phytoplankton are responsible for most of the transfer of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere to the ocean. Carbon dioxide is consumed during photosynthesis, and the carbon is incorporated in the phytoplankton, just as carbon is stored in the wood and leaves of a tree'. The air we breathe is processed by Phytoplankton https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/Phytoplankton#:~:text=Phytoplankton%20are%20responsible%20for%20most,and%20leaves%20of%20a%20tree https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/Phytoplankton#:~:....
r00fus 3y ago
> Maybe we shouldn't have ever allowed this, but it happened, and now we're stuck with it (good luck getting people to move out). They will move out when they can’t insure their properties anymore. [1] Note the refusal to cover properties isn’t a blanket withdrawal; I got a call from State Farm just last week - but I live in a major metro. [1] https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/california-insurance-market-rattled-withdrawal-major-companies-99855058 https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/california-insurance-mar...
- tick_tock_tick 3y ago
  I mean that's only happening because California made it illegal to charge the real risk adjusted price for insurance. The companies weren't going to start losing money on every home in CA so they are leaving.
  - today20201014 3y ago
    > California made it illegal to charge the real risk adjusted price for insurance I'd like to know more about this. Do you have a reference?
    - bird_in_bush 3y ago
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988_California_Proposition_103 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988_California_Proposition_...
      - quickthrowman 3y ago
        California is a great example of direct democracy being a terrible idea in most cases.
        hallway_monitor 3y ago
        California is a great example of being terrible in most cases.
maxerickson 3y ago
A higher percentage of the global population lives in urban areas than pretty much any time before. Population growth isn't causing sprawl.
- midoridensha 3y ago
  It is in the US, where the "urban" label is applied to suburban and exurban places.
  - maxerickson 3y ago
    It's not really population pressure causing that though, at least not exclusively. It's a relatively small number of people that think they want a particular sort of lifestyle. Net migration patterns more or less have people moving out of low population counties and into high population counties.

version_five 3y ago

That may be true in California. In northern Canada there are very few populated places, I believe these are mostly in complete wilderness

olivermarks 3y ago

Environmental fashion became obsessed with trees as 'the lungs of the planet' despite ocean phytoplankton processing most of the air we breath. We have been conditioned to believe humans are destroying the fragile planet but ironically the reality is that we are increasingly irresponsible stewards of it, flying in the face of thousands of years of evidence.

DayDollar 3y ago
Well, that plancton will die off, when the oceans get accidic.. so it will be the trees only in the long run.
TheOtherHobbes 3y ago
We're killing the phytoplankton too. https://medium.com/climate-conscious/how-the-loss-of-phytoplankton-could-lead-to-our-demise-8f9c91b937a8 https://medium.com/climate-conscious/how-the-loss-of-phytopl...
sampo 3y ago
> ocean phytoplankton processing most of the air we breath. This is not true. Ocean photosynthesis produces about 50% of the oxygen in the atmosphere, but ocean respiration also consumes about the same amount. The oceans are about oxygen neutral. Same goes for the other 50%, but in land ecosystems. https://theconversation.com/humans-will-always-have-oxygen-to-breathe-but-we-cant-say-the-same-for-ocean-life-165148 https://theconversation.com/humans-will-always-have-oxygen-t...
- olivermarks 3y ago
  https://www.nationalgeographic.org/activity/save-the-plankton-breathe-freely/ https://www.nationalgeographic.org/activity/save-the-plankto...
  - morsch 3y ago
    https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/ocean-oxygen.html https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/ocean-oxygen.html
    - olivermarks 3y ago
      'Phytoplankton are responsible for most of the transfer of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere to the ocean. Carbon dioxide is consumed during photosynthesis, and the carbon is incorporated in the phytoplankton, just as carbon is stored in the wood and leaves of a tree'. The air we breathe is processed by Phytoplankton https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/Phytoplankton#:~:text=Phytoplankton%20are%20responsible%20for%20most,and%20leaves%20of%20a%20tree https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/Phytoplankton#:~:....

r00fus 3y ago

> Maybe we shouldn't have ever allowed this, but it happened, and now we're stuck with it (good luck getting people to move out). They will move out when they can’t insure their properties anymore. [1] Note the refusal to cover properties isn’t a blanket withdrawal; I got a call from State Farm just last week - but I live in a major metro. [1] https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/california-insurance-market-rattled-withdrawal-major-companies-99855058 https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/california-insurance-mar...

tick_tock_tick 3y ago
I mean that's only happening because California made it illegal to charge the real risk adjusted price for insurance. The companies weren't going to start losing money on every home in CA so they are leaving.
- today20201014 3y ago
  > California made it illegal to charge the real risk adjusted price for insurance I'd like to know more about this. Do you have a reference?
  - bird_in_bush 3y ago
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988_California_Proposition_103 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988_California_Proposition_...
    - quickthrowman 3y ago
      California is a great example of direct democracy being a terrible idea in most cases.
      - hallway_monitor 3y ago
        California is a great example of being terrible in most cases.

maxerickson 3y ago

A higher percentage of the global population lives in urban areas than pretty much any time before. Population growth isn't causing sprawl.

midoridensha 3y ago
It is in the US, where the "urban" label is applied to suburban and exurban places.
- maxerickson 3y ago
  It's not really population pressure causing that though, at least not exclusively. It's a relatively small number of people that think they want a particular sort of lifestyle. Net migration patterns more or less have people moving out of low population counties and into high population counties.