5 ms·

A couple of years ago, Turkey/Türkiye had a campaign to get people to use Türkiye in English. At that time I flew Turkish airlines, which had a promotional vide

A couple of years ago, Turkey/Türkiye had a campaign to get people to use Türkiye in English. At that time I flew Turkish airlines, which had a promotional video about this, and with all mentions of Turkey in safety cards, magazines and the seat back screen changed to Türkiye. Then when browsing for a tv show to watch on my seat back screen, I came across an episode of Everybody Loves Raymond with a description something like “on thanksgiving day, Raymond burns the Türkiye“

xps 3y ago
Should Turkey decide how their country is called in other languages? America is "Měiguó" in Chinese. I'm pretty sure the Chinese decide for themselves what they want to call America.
- mcv 3y ago
  Sometimes, sometimes not. Everybody changed Peking to Beijing when China requested that. But living in Netherland, I shake my head at all the languages insisting on pluralising the name of my country. And that's not even addressing "Dutch".
- kevincox 3y ago
  In general I think yes. People should be able to decide what they want to be called. I think it is really strange that we assign names to countries. Imagine if I asked you what your name was then ignored what you said and pronounced that I would be called you Frank. That would be quite rude.
  - archerx 3y ago
    That's the story of my life, unless you speak French you will probably pronounce my name wrong, no matter how many times I repeat it and help people pronounce it, I don't get mad nor think it's rude, it's kind of amusing actually. Once I realize they can't handle it I just tell people to call me by my last name which is very easy to say in English. There are too many interesting things in life to get hung up on a petty detail like a name.
    - account42 3y ago
      Hey if you write your name out as LAST First (which I see many French people do) then you might not even have to ask people to call you by your first name.
  - wodenokoto 3y ago
    It's a bit more complicated than that. It is also quite rude of you, where you not to not accept that other people write using other letters have have other abilities in terms of what phonemes they can pronounce.
    - kevincox 3y ago
      I see a distinction between mapping a name more or less faithfully to the sounds and spelling of a language and coming up with a completely different name. For example Brazil in English is not the same as Brasil but is fairly close and fits the language. Whereas IDK where Germany came from.
      - account42 3y ago
        > Whereas IDK where Germany came from. Von den Germanen. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_peoples https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_peoples I'm not a fan of this modern idea that you should get to dictate how others refer to you. E.g. I don't think it makes sense to refer to China as Middle Country for anyone not from China.
  - vintermann 3y ago
    Most of the time (and all of the time with gendered pronouns), you don't use it to address me. You're using it to talk about me. And then, it's really between you two what you call me, isn't it? Of course I would be happier knowing you didn't refer to me in a rude manner, or as something I'm not, but I believe in privacy too, so it's really your business. Turkey isn't rude, and it's usually understood from context that we don't refer to the bird (the Turkish government also push Türkiye on countries where the native word has no bird connotation). We used to translate all names, and that's understandable because names are often unpronounceable or otherwise violate grammatical rules if you just blindly drop them in a different language. I think it should be fine to use "Turkey" when talking to another English-speaker.
  - EmilioMartinez 3y ago
    [dead]
- nunuvit 3y ago
  I'm 100% opposed to telling people how to speak their language. I don't even like telling people who use English as a lingua franca how to use it in a culturally "correct" way. Normally, I'm outspoken against most "domestic" proposals to change words, since the rationale and implementation are usually very poor. But as an American, I've decided that Turkiye without the ü is more desirable than Turkey. It resolves an annoyingly ambiguous search term, doesn't change anything about how it's pronounced, reads the exact same way, and it's trivial to switch how I write it. It really is a superior design with a painless transition.
tapland 3y ago
I think that request passed the UN last year its being adapted by countries now, ao looking forward to more of these
- mr_toad 3y ago
  Since the bird was named after the country shouldn’t the name of the bird change too?
  - celeritascelery 3y ago
    My guess is they are doing this whole thing in the first place to get rid of association between their country and a large gobbling bird.
    - smcl 3y ago
      Is that the reason? I thought it was just more of a Erdogan nationalism thing
      - fleischhauf 3y ago
        sounds like both no?
        smcl 3y ago
        > TRT World explained the decision in an article earlier this year, saying Googling “Turkey” brings up a “a muddled set of images, articles, and dictionary definitions that conflate the country with Meleagris – otherwise known as the turkey, a large bird native to North America – which is famous for being served on Christmas menus or Thanksgiving dinners.” Ha, so yeah it seems like that's definitely a part of it.
- kingofpandora 3y ago
  Why do you think this is a good thing?
behnamoh 3y ago
no one's gonna type the "ü". this new name will either not get adopted all get adopted in wrong ways, like people using turkiye, adding more to the search fragmentation.
- Timon3 3y ago
  Not that I disagree, but it's not "no one". There are more countries than just Turkey with the letter ü :)
  - account42 3y ago
    So should Germans write it as Tuerkye when the ü is not available?

xps 3y ago

Should Turkey decide how their country is called in other languages? America is "Měiguó" in Chinese. I'm pretty sure the Chinese decide for themselves what they want to call America.

mcv 3y ago
Sometimes, sometimes not. Everybody changed Peking to Beijing when China requested that. But living in Netherland, I shake my head at all the languages insisting on pluralising the name of my country. And that's not even addressing "Dutch".
kevincox 3y ago
In general I think yes. People should be able to decide what they want to be called. I think it is really strange that we assign names to countries. Imagine if I asked you what your name was then ignored what you said and pronounced that I would be called you Frank. That would be quite rude.
- archerx 3y ago
  That's the story of my life, unless you speak French you will probably pronounce my name wrong, no matter how many times I repeat it and help people pronounce it, I don't get mad nor think it's rude, it's kind of amusing actually. Once I realize they can't handle it I just tell people to call me by my last name which is very easy to say in English. There are too many interesting things in life to get hung up on a petty detail like a name.
  - account42 3y ago
    Hey if you write your name out as LAST First (which I see many French people do) then you might not even have to ask people to call you by your first name.
- wodenokoto 3y ago
  It's a bit more complicated than that. It is also quite rude of you, where you not to not accept that other people write using other letters have have other abilities in terms of what phonemes they can pronounce.
  - kevincox 3y ago
    I see a distinction between mapping a name more or less faithfully to the sounds and spelling of a language and coming up with a completely different name. For example Brazil in English is not the same as Brasil but is fairly close and fits the language. Whereas IDK where Germany came from.
    - account42 3y ago
      > Whereas IDK where Germany came from. Von den Germanen. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_peoples https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_peoples I'm not a fan of this modern idea that you should get to dictate how others refer to you. E.g. I don't think it makes sense to refer to China as Middle Country for anyone not from China.
- vintermann 3y ago
  Most of the time (and all of the time with gendered pronouns), you don't use it to address me. You're using it to talk about me. And then, it's really between you two what you call me, isn't it? Of course I would be happier knowing you didn't refer to me in a rude manner, or as something I'm not, but I believe in privacy too, so it's really your business. Turkey isn't rude, and it's usually understood from context that we don't refer to the bird (the Turkish government also push Türkiye on countries where the native word has no bird connotation). We used to translate all names, and that's understandable because names are often unpronounceable or otherwise violate grammatical rules if you just blindly drop them in a different language. I think it should be fine to use "Turkey" when talking to another English-speaker.
- EmilioMartinez 3y ago
  [dead]
nunuvit 3y ago
I'm 100% opposed to telling people how to speak their language. I don't even like telling people who use English as a lingua franca how to use it in a culturally "correct" way. Normally, I'm outspoken against most "domestic" proposals to change words, since the rationale and implementation are usually very poor. But as an American, I've decided that Turkiye without the ü is more desirable than Turkey. It resolves an annoyingly ambiguous search term, doesn't change anything about how it's pronounced, reads the exact same way, and it's trivial to switch how I write it. It really is a superior design with a painless transition.

tapland 3y ago

I think that request passed the UN last year its being adapted by countries now, ao looking forward to more of these

mr_toad 3y ago
Since the bird was named after the country shouldn’t the name of the bird change too?
- celeritascelery 3y ago
  My guess is they are doing this whole thing in the first place to get rid of association between their country and a large gobbling bird.
  - smcl 3y ago
    Is that the reason? I thought it was just more of a Erdogan nationalism thing
    - fleischhauf 3y ago
      sounds like both no?
      - smcl 3y ago
        > TRT World explained the decision in an article earlier this year, saying Googling “Turkey” brings up a “a muddled set of images, articles, and dictionary definitions that conflate the country with Meleagris – otherwise known as the turkey, a large bird native to North America – which is famous for being served on Christmas menus or Thanksgiving dinners.” Ha, so yeah it seems like that's definitely a part of it.
kingofpandora 3y ago
Why do you think this is a good thing?

behnamoh 3y ago

no one's gonna type the "ü". this new name will either not get adopted all get adopted in wrong ways, like people using turkiye, adding more to the search fragmentation.

Timon3 3y ago
Not that I disagree, but it's not "no one". There are more countries than just Turkey with the letter ü :)
- account42 3y ago
  So should Germans write it as Tuerkye when the ü is not available?