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Author here - the protections remain in theory, but will not longer be active beforehand. It is possible that the oversight committee finds the time to check af

Author here - the protections remain in theory, but will not longer be active beforehand. It is possible that the oversight committee finds the time to check afterwards, but they aren't obliged to do so. Also, by then the damage is done.

jacquesm 3y ago
Yes, that's the risk, but: similar issues have been flagged in the past and in the end oversight won out so I'm not quite as worried as you are. A typical scenario is that a hacker is using a series of nested accesses to compromised systems, if the original warrant allows for tracking the hacker on the first system then there is no time to obtain warrants for the systems that are uncloaked as the result of the investigation, this happens pretty much in real time. So this provision allows the investigation to proceed and will have a reasonable time allowed to 'catch up'. It definitely is possible that it will be abused, but that will lead to this provision being disbanded, as has happened in the past when dutch LE overstepped their authority. I'm fairly sure that those lessons - and the cases thrown out as a result - have been learned, but of course it is very well possible that we'll see a re-run. I'm on the fence on this one, I'd say let's see where it leads because it is clear to me that the digital world is moving much faster than law enforcement can normally speaking keep up with and a lot of crime is perpetrated because of that. The risk of abuse of such methods is always present, and 'protections in theory' that are abused tend to find very unsympathetic judges in this country. It's fairly clear that something will have to change if LE is to keep up with the increase in online crime, whether this overshoots the mark or not remains - in my view - to be seen. It definitely has that risk, but then again, so would every other proposal short of the status quo and that clearly isn't effective enough.
- coldtea 3y ago
  >Yes, that's the risk, but: similar issues have been flagged in the past and in the end oversight won Did it? If anything the history is riffe with cases that oversight was totally lost... And of course, if it comes to "trusting oversight" the Overton window has already moved to accepting such kind of surveillance.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    It did in NL, both regular police and AIVD (the Dutch secret service) have been smacked down repeatedly in court.

jacquesm 3y ago

Yes, that's the risk, but: similar issues have been flagged in the past and in the end oversight won out so I'm not quite as worried as you are. A typical scenario is that a hacker is using a series of nested accesses to compromised systems, if the original warrant allows for tracking the hacker on the first system then there is no time to obtain warrants for the systems that are uncloaked as the result of the investigation, this happens pretty much in real time. So this provision allows the investigation to proceed and will have a reasonable time allowed to 'catch up'. It definitely is possible that it will be abused, but that will lead to this provision being disbanded, as has happened in the past when dutch LE overstepped their authority. I'm fairly sure that those lessons - and the cases thrown out as a result - have been learned, but of course it is very well possible that we'll see a re-run. I'm on the fence on this one, I'd say let's see where it leads because it is clear to me that the digital world is moving much faster than law enforcement can normally speaking keep up with and a lot of crime is perpetrated because of that. The risk of abuse of such methods is always present, and 'protections in theory' that are abused tend to find very unsympathetic judges in this country. It's fairly clear that something will have to change if LE is to keep up with the increase in online crime, whether this overshoots the mark or not remains - in my view - to be seen. It definitely has that risk, but then again, so would every other proposal short of the status quo and that clearly isn't effective enough.

coldtea 3y ago
>Yes, that's the risk, but: similar issues have been flagged in the past and in the end oversight won Did it? If anything the history is riffe with cases that oversight was totally lost... And of course, if it comes to "trusting oversight" the Overton window has already moved to accepting such kind of surveillance.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  It did in NL, both regular police and AIVD (the Dutch secret service) have been smacked down repeatedly in court.