8 ms·

This is still a huge improvement. Can devs also use TestFlight for free to distribute to a few dozen friends for testing? Would be a massive benefit to budding

This is still a huge improvement. Can devs also use TestFlight for free to distribute to a few dozen friends for testing? Would be a massive benefit to budding developers in developing nations.

guraf 3y ago
Serious question: why or how does a developer in a developing nation end up selecting macos as a platform? And after that deliberate choice of hardware why do we assume they couldn't afford the $99?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- norman784 3y ago
  I don't know how is now, but a few years ago you have more chances to monetize in iOS than in Android. Also you can get a used Mac or refurbished one relatively cheap.
- CodeBeater 3y ago
  They might be trying to target that specific high-dollar demographic.
  - motogpjimbo 3y ago
    Outside of the US, iOS's market penetration is so low that unless your app sells luxury yachts, it's largely pointless to throw your dev resources behind it no matter how well-heeled your Apple customers may be.
- schemescape 3y ago
  If they’re trying to sell apps, it would make sense to sell on the platform where people spend the most on apps. I have no way to verify, but I’ve heard that iOS is that platform.
  - derefr 3y ago
    Depends on whether you're trying to produce apps that target the global market or your own local market. There might be more apps purchased per capita on iOS, but if iOS is 0.001% penetration in your country, and your app is only for people in your country, then that stat isn't really relevant.
    - wahnfrieden 3y ago
      Who would make an app only for one country outside specific fringe cases Edit: Specifically on the topic of apps relevant to independent developers, the topic I’m replying to. An indie dev isn’t going to create a regional newspaper or utility company or a media empire or a government.
      - derefr 3y ago
        Regional newspapers; social networks (or dating, or classifieds) following the Facebook "start by seeding interest in the people around you" model; government services apps; any "portal" app for banks, electric companies, cellular providers, or insurance companies, etc. (I'm Canadian; half the apps on my phone only exist in Canada.) More relevant to paid use-cases: streaming video services that offer content in the country's distinct language that's only spoken there. (Example: the Philippines. There's enough Tagalog content for entire services to be based around offering it; and nobody outside of the country would ever be interested in it.) > An indie dev isn’t going to create a regional newspaper or utility company or a media empire. How many people do you think work at regional newspapers in e.g. Tanzania? I'd guess maybe five people. You think they can hire some big software firm to write them a mobile app? They're either hiring the editor's nephew to do it, or they put out a classified ad looking for someone in town who can do it, and they end up getting a call from the guy who runs the cellphone repair store who "thinks he can give it a try." Same with the banks there, the utilities there, and even the government services there. Also same with schools, restaurants, museums, etc. You'd think that most of these would just target the web rather than making mobile apps. But in many of these countries — and esp. in poorer regions of them — Internet access is still so shit that the lower bandwidth requirements of a native app with offline sync really matter. (Example again from the Philippines, c/o a friend of mine who lives there: people who meet on dating websites move immediately to talking on WhatsApp, because out in the provinces you've got a miniscule data plan with spotty connectivity, which can handle the few KBs of push data per WhatsApp message, but can't handle refreshing some bloated website chat interface to check for new messages.)
- mantas 3y ago
  Hackintosh plus few generations old iphone is not expensive.
  - g0atbutt 3y ago
    If you value your time at $0…
    - szundi 3y ago
      Topic here is you have no money = this
    - mantas 3y ago
      Before M1, Hackintosh was giving top-tier performance for 3-4x less money. With a day's worth of research. And then an hour here or there when doing yearly upgrade.
  - dylan604 3y ago
    Is hackintosh still a thing now that Apple Si is a thing? If you're forced to use Intel CPU, you're not going to be using the latest/greatest OS.
    - heavyset_go 3y ago
      Until a few days ago, the Mac Studio or Pro was sold with Xeon processors. I'd hope that Apple would continue to support those platforms with updates.
      - dylan604 3y ago
        It was my understanding that the Studio came with M1 chips. Never heard of a Studio as a Mactel. Sure your info is correct? Maybe thinking of the iMac Pro that was discontinued?
        heavyset_go 3y ago
        It was probably the Pro that I was thinking of, then. edit: yeah it was the Mac Pro: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_Pro https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_Pro
- la_fayette 3y ago
  I develop iOS apps and I am fine with a mac mini and a used iPhone...
  - willcipriano 3y ago
    I started programming on the PC with computers I found in the trash.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - tucnak 3y ago
    All iphones are used if you use them...
- zerr 3y ago
  Unlocked VMware macOS emulation on Windows is also an option.
- ramesh31 3y ago
  >Serious question: why or how does a developer in a developing nation end up selecting macos as a platform? Money. Plain and simple, iOS is where the money is at. People jump through the hoops, and Apple creates them, because they know the customer base is many times more valuable than Android.
lapcat 3y ago
> Can devs also use TestFlight for free to distribute to a few dozen friends for testing? No. https://developer.apple.com/support/compare-memberships/ https://developer.apple.com/support/compare-memberships/
m3kw9 3y ago
Prob not as that lowers the barrier to mass side loading via test flight
Alupis 3y ago
Why is there any fee at all... $99 per developer is a rounding error for Apple, it simply doesn't matter one bit. Nor should you be limited to compiling on Apple hardware. These limitations are policy decisions, and just serve to reinforce the notion that Apple doesn't care about developers (hilarious for the company that pretty much invented app stores!). A lot like it was a ToS violation to run MacOS in a virtualization environment - why be so developer hostile? Nobody can soundly argue these artificial barriers have increased app quality on all the Apple platforms either. These barriers... just exist, just because.
- konschubert 3y ago
  The fee is to prevent spam.
  - Alupis 3y ago
    Spam could be prevented with a listing fee if you want the app to list in the App Store. Spam is prevented by app reviews and policy enforcement, on the App store. A developer annual fee doesn't prevent spam. It's just there to be hostile to developers...
    - blululu 3y ago
      I get that paying for stuff is a pain but apps are a business and there are a ton of expenses involved with any business (a websites, databases, cloud hosting are also not free). Having app reviews done by a human is fundamentally expensive. Given that a develop can easily submit a few apps in a year, I'm not really sure that Apple is even making much more than break even on the annual $100 fee. If they are it is small potatoes compared to the 15-33% fees on sales.
      - dingledork69 3y ago
        Not all of them. Did you forget that open source software exists? Or just good old hobbyists.
dietr1ch 3y ago
Right, they'll save 99 and still need to buy a super expensive computer that probably has a huge markup due to taxes, shipping, and just being in a poor country.

This is still a huge improvement. Can devs also use TestFlight for free to distribute to a few dozen friends for testing? Would be a massive benefit to budding developers in developing nations.

guraf 3y ago

Serious question: why or how does a developer in a developing nation end up selecting macos as a platform? And after that deliberate choice of hardware why do we assume they couldn't afford the $99?

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
norman784 3y ago
I don't know how is now, but a few years ago you have more chances to monetize in iOS than in Android. Also you can get a used Mac or refurbished one relatively cheap.
CodeBeater 3y ago
They might be trying to target that specific high-dollar demographic.
- motogpjimbo 3y ago
  Outside of the US, iOS's market penetration is so low that unless your app sells luxury yachts, it's largely pointless to throw your dev resources behind it no matter how well-heeled your Apple customers may be.
schemescape 3y ago
If they’re trying to sell apps, it would make sense to sell on the platform where people spend the most on apps. I have no way to verify, but I’ve heard that iOS is that platform.
- derefr 3y ago
  Depends on whether you're trying to produce apps that target the global market or your own local market. There might be more apps purchased per capita on iOS, but if iOS is 0.001% penetration in your country, and your app is only for people in your country, then that stat isn't really relevant.
  - wahnfrieden 3y ago
    Who would make an app only for one country outside specific fringe cases Edit: Specifically on the topic of apps relevant to independent developers, the topic I’m replying to. An indie dev isn’t going to create a regional newspaper or utility company or a media empire or a government.
    - derefr 3y ago
      Regional newspapers; social networks (or dating, or classifieds) following the Facebook "start by seeding interest in the people around you" model; government services apps; any "portal" app for banks, electric companies, cellular providers, or insurance companies, etc. (I'm Canadian; half the apps on my phone only exist in Canada.) More relevant to paid use-cases: streaming video services that offer content in the country's distinct language that's only spoken there. (Example: the Philippines. There's enough Tagalog content for entire services to be based around offering it; and nobody outside of the country would ever be interested in it.) > An indie dev isn’t going to create a regional newspaper or utility company or a media empire. How many people do you think work at regional newspapers in e.g. Tanzania? I'd guess maybe five people. You think they can hire some big software firm to write them a mobile app? They're either hiring the editor's nephew to do it, or they put out a classified ad looking for someone in town who can do it, and they end up getting a call from the guy who runs the cellphone repair store who "thinks he can give it a try." Same with the banks there, the utilities there, and even the government services there. Also same with schools, restaurants, museums, etc. You'd think that most of these would just target the web rather than making mobile apps. But in many of these countries — and esp. in poorer regions of them — Internet access is still so shit that the lower bandwidth requirements of a native app with offline sync really matter. (Example again from the Philippines, c/o a friend of mine who lives there: people who meet on dating websites move immediately to talking on WhatsApp, because out in the provinces you've got a miniscule data plan with spotty connectivity, which can handle the few KBs of push data per WhatsApp message, but can't handle refreshing some bloated website chat interface to check for new messages.)
mantas 3y ago
Hackintosh plus few generations old iphone is not expensive.
- g0atbutt 3y ago
  If you value your time at $0…
  - szundi 3y ago
    Topic here is you have no money = this
  - mantas 3y ago
    Before M1, Hackintosh was giving top-tier performance for 3-4x less money. With a day's worth of research. And then an hour here or there when doing yearly upgrade.
- dylan604 3y ago
  Is hackintosh still a thing now that Apple Si is a thing? If you're forced to use Intel CPU, you're not going to be using the latest/greatest OS.
  - heavyset_go 3y ago
    Until a few days ago, the Mac Studio or Pro was sold with Xeon processors. I'd hope that Apple would continue to support those platforms with updates.
    - dylan604 3y ago
      It was my understanding that the Studio came with M1 chips. Never heard of a Studio as a Mactel. Sure your info is correct? Maybe thinking of the iMac Pro that was discontinued?
      - heavyset_go 3y ago
        It was probably the Pro that I was thinking of, then. edit: yeah it was the Mac Pro: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_Pro https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_Pro
la_fayette 3y ago
I develop iOS apps and I am fine with a mac mini and a used iPhone...
- willcipriano 3y ago
  I started programming on the PC with computers I found in the trash.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- tucnak 3y ago
  All iphones are used if you use them...
zerr 3y ago
Unlocked VMware macOS emulation on Windows is also an option.
ramesh31 3y ago
>Serious question: why or how does a developer in a developing nation end up selecting macos as a platform? Money. Plain and simple, iOS is where the money is at. People jump through the hoops, and Apple creates them, because they know the customer base is many times more valuable than Android.

lapcat 3y ago

> Can devs also use TestFlight for free to distribute to a few dozen friends for testing? No. https://developer.apple.com/support/compare-memberships/ https://developer.apple.com/support/compare-memberships/

m3kw9 3y ago

Prob not as that lowers the barrier to mass side loading via test flight

Alupis 3y ago

Why is there any fee at all... $99 per developer is a rounding error for Apple, it simply doesn't matter one bit. Nor should you be limited to compiling on Apple hardware. These limitations are policy decisions, and just serve to reinforce the notion that Apple doesn't care about developers (hilarious for the company that pretty much invented app stores!). A lot like it was a ToS violation to run MacOS in a virtualization environment - why be so developer hostile? Nobody can soundly argue these artificial barriers have increased app quality on all the Apple platforms either. These barriers... just exist, just because.

konschubert 3y ago
The fee is to prevent spam.
- Alupis 3y ago
  Spam could be prevented with a listing fee if you want the app to list in the App Store. Spam is prevented by app reviews and policy enforcement, on the App store. A developer annual fee doesn't prevent spam. It's just there to be hostile to developers...
  - blululu 3y ago
    I get that paying for stuff is a pain but apps are a business and there are a ton of expenses involved with any business (a websites, databases, cloud hosting are also not free). Having app reviews done by a human is fundamentally expensive. Given that a develop can easily submit a few apps in a year, I'm not really sure that Apple is even making much more than break even on the annual $100 fee. If they are it is small potatoes compared to the 15-33% fees on sales.
    - dingledork69 3y ago
      Not all of them. Did you forget that open source software exists? Or just good old hobbyists.

dietr1ch 3y ago

Right, they'll save 99 and still need to buy a super expensive computer that probably has a huge markup due to taxes, shipping, and just being in a poor country.