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> Why does he deserve special treatment? First, a fair trial is not "special treatment". Second, because every U.S. citizen is protected by the Bill of Rights.

> Why does he deserve special treatment? First, a fair trial is not "special treatment". Second, because every U.S. citizen is protected by the Bill of Rights. There was a non-zero chance that had Snowden not fled the country he'd be quietly moved to Gitmo and never heard from again. I may be reading this wrong, but, it sounds like you're not in favor of the actions Snowden took. I couldn't disagree more. He tried to raise the illegal operation he was a part of to the higher-ups, through the chain-of-command, and he was ignored. The public deserves to know that the U.S. Government was blantly breaking the law and spying on everyone, everywhere, all the time.

2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
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- mmh0000 3y ago
  Look at what "they" did to Manning. (And to be clear, in the case of Manning, they were rightfully jailed, IMHO). But, their treatment after the trial was brutal [1]. Snowden himself thought being Gitmo'd was a real possibility [2] At the time when this happened, there were loud, vocal calls for violence against Snowden by people in powerful positions [3][6] Snowden has said: "I would like to return to the United States. That is the ultimate goal. But if I'm gonna spend the rest of my life in prison, the one bottom line demand that we have to agree to is that at least I get a fair trial. And that is the one thing the government has refused to guarantee because they won't provide access to what's called a public interest defense," Snowden told "CBS This Morning." The Government has refused a simple guarantee, meaning they have no interest in a fair trial. Had the Government offered a guarantee, and Snowden refused, you may have a point, but as things are now, no. The Council of Europe believed strongly enough that Snowden would not get a fair trial [5] [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/mar/12/bradley-manning-cruel-inhuman-treatment-un https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/mar/12/bradley-mannin... [2] https://thehill.com/policy/technology/212549-snowden-i-can-live-with-prison-in-guantanamo/ https://thehill.com/policy/technology/212549-snowden-i-can-l... [3] https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/bennyjohnson/americas-spies-want-edward-snowden-dead https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/bennyjohnson/americas-s... [4] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/edward-snowden-nsa-cbs-this-morning-interview-today-2019-09-16/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/edward-snowden-nsa-cbs-this-mor... [5] https://theintercept.com/2015/06/23/european-council-calls-u-s-let-snowden-fair-trial/ https://theintercept.com/2015/06/23/european-council-calls-u... [6] https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2543375/I-love-bullet-head-NSA-whistleblower-Edward-Snowden-fears-life-receiving-anonymous-death-threats-Pentagon-NSA.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2543375/I-love-bull... Edit: pronouns
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
    Manning was not a civilian but a member of the US military subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice https://vwac.defense.gov/military.aspx https://vwac.defense.gov/military.aspx Snowden was a civilian contractor > Snowden himself thought being Gitmo'd was a real possibility Maybe so but that doesn't make it a possibility. Help me understand how that would unfold. What legal avenue is there?
    - ubermonkey 3y ago
      You're deeply naive if you think the USGov wouldn't bend or outright break laws to keep Snowden under wraps.
      - 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
        But did they break laws or is your imagination running wild with hypothetical scenarios? You can't use some imagined alternate timeline/scenario as supporting evidence for your claim.
        ubermonkey 3y ago
        It is a matter of public record that the USGov has (a) assassinated American citizens abroad and (b) used "extraordinary rendition" hundreds if not thousands of times to lock people up on black sites for torture or worse with absolutely zero due process. So no, it's definitely not my imagination.
        2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
        We were talking about Snowden going to Gitmo, how would that happen?
        ubermonkey 3y ago
        Given the basic nature of the question, I'm getting the idea that you're not arguing in good faith.
- Volundr 3y ago
  > We already get a trial that is as fair as humanly possible so asking for a "fair" trial is ridiculous. Is every other trial unfair? No, but every other trail is not conducted under the restrictions of the espionage act, as has already been explained in this thread. What Snowden is asking for is what most of us can expect should we find ourselves on trial.
RavingGoat 3y ago
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2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago

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mmh0000 3y ago
Look at what "they" did to Manning. (And to be clear, in the case of Manning, they were rightfully jailed, IMHO). But, their treatment after the trial was brutal [1]. Snowden himself thought being Gitmo'd was a real possibility [2] At the time when this happened, there were loud, vocal calls for violence against Snowden by people in powerful positions [3][6] Snowden has said: "I would like to return to the United States. That is the ultimate goal. But if I'm gonna spend the rest of my life in prison, the one bottom line demand that we have to agree to is that at least I get a fair trial. And that is the one thing the government has refused to guarantee because they won't provide access to what's called a public interest defense," Snowden told "CBS This Morning." The Government has refused a simple guarantee, meaning they have no interest in a fair trial. Had the Government offered a guarantee, and Snowden refused, you may have a point, but as things are now, no. The Council of Europe believed strongly enough that Snowden would not get a fair trial [5] [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/mar/12/bradley-manning-cruel-inhuman-treatment-un https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/mar/12/bradley-mannin... [2] https://thehill.com/policy/technology/212549-snowden-i-can-live-with-prison-in-guantanamo/ https://thehill.com/policy/technology/212549-snowden-i-can-l... [3] https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/bennyjohnson/americas-spies-want-edward-snowden-dead https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/bennyjohnson/americas-s... [4] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/edward-snowden-nsa-cbs-this-morning-interview-today-2019-09-16/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/edward-snowden-nsa-cbs-this-mor... [5] https://theintercept.com/2015/06/23/european-council-calls-u-s-let-snowden-fair-trial/ https://theintercept.com/2015/06/23/european-council-calls-u... [6] https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2543375/I-love-bullet-head-NSA-whistleblower-Edward-Snowden-fears-life-receiving-anonymous-death-threats-Pentagon-NSA.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2543375/I-love-bull... Edit: pronouns
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
  Manning was not a civilian but a member of the US military subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice https://vwac.defense.gov/military.aspx https://vwac.defense.gov/military.aspx Snowden was a civilian contractor > Snowden himself thought being Gitmo'd was a real possibility Maybe so but that doesn't make it a possibility. Help me understand how that would unfold. What legal avenue is there?
  - ubermonkey 3y ago
    You're deeply naive if you think the USGov wouldn't bend or outright break laws to keep Snowden under wraps.
    - 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
      But did they break laws or is your imagination running wild with hypothetical scenarios? You can't use some imagined alternate timeline/scenario as supporting evidence for your claim.
      - ubermonkey 3y ago
        It is a matter of public record that the USGov has (a) assassinated American citizens abroad and (b) used "extraordinary rendition" hundreds if not thousands of times to lock people up on black sites for torture or worse with absolutely zero due process. So no, it's definitely not my imagination.
        2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
        We were talking about Snowden going to Gitmo, how would that happen?
        ubermonkey 3y ago
        Given the basic nature of the question, I'm getting the idea that you're not arguing in good faith.
Volundr 3y ago
> We already get a trial that is as fair as humanly possible so asking for a "fair" trial is ridiculous. Is every other trial unfair? No, but every other trail is not conducted under the restrictions of the espionage act, as has already been explained in this thread. What Snowden is asking for is what most of us can expect should we find ourselves on trial.

RavingGoat 3y ago

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