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> There are enormous advantages to living (as much as possible of) your life in VR: > - your home can be arbitrarily large at zero cost and without taking any

> There are enormous advantages to living (as much as possible of) your life in VR: > - your home can be arbitrarily large at zero cost and without taking any land away from anyone else Except it isn't. > - you can change the decor whenever you want at zero cost Except you can't. > - you can paint walls as ornately as you like, at zero cost, immediately, without even any prep work required Except you can't. > - you spend zero time on travelling Except you don't. > - you can instantly hang out with friends in foreign countries for free without even needing a visa Except you don't. This is an incredibly dystopian view. Let's not kid ourselves that VR will not be monetized to the breaking point just like any other platform. Enshitification is inevitable. In other words, corporations will do what they already do, sell lies, create demand for those lies and in exchange demand more of the irreplaceable things like time, land and resources.

mewpmewp2 3y ago
You are not looking far enough ahead. In the future people will be in their pods, only connected within virtual reality and everything will feel as if it was real. This allows for much more optimal space and resources management.
- lolinder 3y ago
  Either you left off the "/s" or you're missing their point. Who will be doing the space and resource management? This is not a future where individual consumers have control. This is a future where corporations give consumers enough of an illusion of control that they don't notice how much they've actually given up.
  - ddalex 3y ago
    > Who will be doing the space and resource management? AI, obviously, they are far better and meticulous planners then humans. AI will evolve to maximise shareholder value at all costs.
- alexvoda 3y ago
  There is no guaranteed path for the future. Humanity makes the future it will live in. So I am just looking ahead in a different direction from you. I find it hard to not throw a plethora of insults at you for the vision you endorsed. The Matrix was not an instruction manual, it was a warning. Why do you want that to be the future?
  - mewpmewp2 3y ago
    In the future it won't be possible to have a life as it is like now and it's only possible in virtual realities. The scenarios that are normal and natural for people can only be offered in those pods. You might not even be able to tell any difference when you are in a pod. In fact you could be in the pod right this very moment and you could be the main player where all scenarios are created and catered specifically for you to throw various challenges at you which might feel stressful, but you'll be able to surmount them. These scenarios give meaning to your life.
    - alexvoda 3y ago
      As I expected you do not want to engage in actual dialogue and answer the question I asked. You are just posturing that it is inevitable and therefore do not want to answer why you favour this dystopia to the detriment of any other possible future. Moreover you are also steering this towards the simulation hypothesis which is a dead end for a debate. I will no longer entertain this charade.
      - mewpmewp2 3y ago
        I haven't said I favour that. It does seem inevitable however. How would you expect humans to end up? In 10 years? In 50 years? In 200 years? People are already out of their natural habitats, and they will be even more. Is there going to be some sort of magical future moment where people achieve what they wanted to achieve and will they be happy? How could it happen if environment is going to completely change? What once gave rewards to humans, in the future can not, since there wouldn't be similar events that have built humans throughout the evolution. People are already addicted to smartphones, people are depressed and have issues with their mental states, despite World being more comfortable and safe to navigate than ever before, people are overall not necessarily more happy.
nerdbert 3y ago
> Except you can't. Some of these objections sound like saying we're not really listening to music on our phones, I guess because there's not really a band playing, or because of the lossy sound encoding or something. In fact, we _are_ listening to music, in a way that people seem to enjoy and which has been democratized far beyond previous possibilities for listening to music.
- manicdee 3y ago
  More like "we're not really listening to music on our phones for free". These days everything is a subscription. Then games are released where every cosmetic change is paid for, so you can be max level with the best gear but you'll still look like a beginner character because you haven't paid for the cosmetic upgrades to go along with the extra gear you won along the way. Change the wallpaper in your virtual apartment, huh? You'll absolutely be paying for that. Some people will save money by just coping with the walls being non-stop ads for anti-depressants and pills for erectile dysfunction. Perhaps they'll take their headset off and do everything through command lines. Pity if the headset eventually evolves into implants that pump images and sounds directly into your brain.
  - moi2388 3y ago
    Well I don’t know about you, but if I want a free app to change my wallpaper and there isn’t one I’ll just write one. It’s totally a choice to pay.
    - alexvoda 3y ago
      Talking about wallpapers is derailing the conversation. The point was that just as we see the social networks of today and the games of today getting enshitified so will every VR experience get enshitified. As for writing it yourself, care to talk about the price of the developer account, the approval process, the risk of getting banned, the ever changing API surface, the time you use for all of this, etc. etc.? You are NOT the owner of anything in the "metaverse". You are just allowed the privilege of playing in the platform owners sandbox as long as you pay. When the platform owner will decide it is profitable to exploit users ability to set wallpapers there is nothing you as a user or as a developer on top of the platform will be able to do to counter that. Here, read this (1) and watch this (2) and tell me you feel confident the same will not happen to any "metaverse". (1) https://pluralistic.net/2023/01/21/potemkin-ai/#hey-guys https://pluralistic.net/2023/01/21/potemkin-ai/#hey-guys (2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g16heGLKlTA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g16heGLKlTA

mewpmewp2 3y ago

You are not looking far enough ahead. In the future people will be in their pods, only connected within virtual reality and everything will feel as if it was real. This allows for much more optimal space and resources management.

lolinder 3y ago
Either you left off the "/s" or you're missing their point. Who will be doing the space and resource management? This is not a future where individual consumers have control. This is a future where corporations give consumers enough of an illusion of control that they don't notice how much they've actually given up.
- ddalex 3y ago
  > Who will be doing the space and resource management? AI, obviously, they are far better and meticulous planners then humans. AI will evolve to maximise shareholder value at all costs.
alexvoda 3y ago
There is no guaranteed path for the future. Humanity makes the future it will live in. So I am just looking ahead in a different direction from you. I find it hard to not throw a plethora of insults at you for the vision you endorsed. The Matrix was not an instruction manual, it was a warning. Why do you want that to be the future?
- mewpmewp2 3y ago
  In the future it won't be possible to have a life as it is like now and it's only possible in virtual realities. The scenarios that are normal and natural for people can only be offered in those pods. You might not even be able to tell any difference when you are in a pod. In fact you could be in the pod right this very moment and you could be the main player where all scenarios are created and catered specifically for you to throw various challenges at you which might feel stressful, but you'll be able to surmount them. These scenarios give meaning to your life.
  - alexvoda 3y ago
    As I expected you do not want to engage in actual dialogue and answer the question I asked. You are just posturing that it is inevitable and therefore do not want to answer why you favour this dystopia to the detriment of any other possible future. Moreover you are also steering this towards the simulation hypothesis which is a dead end for a debate. I will no longer entertain this charade.
    - mewpmewp2 3y ago
      I haven't said I favour that. It does seem inevitable however. How would you expect humans to end up? In 10 years? In 50 years? In 200 years? People are already out of their natural habitats, and they will be even more. Is there going to be some sort of magical future moment where people achieve what they wanted to achieve and will they be happy? How could it happen if environment is going to completely change? What once gave rewards to humans, in the future can not, since there wouldn't be similar events that have built humans throughout the evolution. People are already addicted to smartphones, people are depressed and have issues with their mental states, despite World being more comfortable and safe to navigate than ever before, people are overall not necessarily more happy.

nerdbert 3y ago

> Except you can't. Some of these objections sound like saying we're not really listening to music on our phones, I guess because there's not really a band playing, or because of the lossy sound encoding or something. In fact, we _are_ listening to music, in a way that people seem to enjoy and which has been democratized far beyond previous possibilities for listening to music.

manicdee 3y ago
More like "we're not really listening to music on our phones for free". These days everything is a subscription. Then games are released where every cosmetic change is paid for, so you can be max level with the best gear but you'll still look like a beginner character because you haven't paid for the cosmetic upgrades to go along with the extra gear you won along the way. Change the wallpaper in your virtual apartment, huh? You'll absolutely be paying for that. Some people will save money by just coping with the walls being non-stop ads for anti-depressants and pills for erectile dysfunction. Perhaps they'll take their headset off and do everything through command lines. Pity if the headset eventually evolves into implants that pump images and sounds directly into your brain.
- moi2388 3y ago
  Well I don’t know about you, but if I want a free app to change my wallpaper and there isn’t one I’ll just write one. It’s totally a choice to pay.
  - alexvoda 3y ago
    Talking about wallpapers is derailing the conversation. The point was that just as we see the social networks of today and the games of today getting enshitified so will every VR experience get enshitified. As for writing it yourself, care to talk about the price of the developer account, the approval process, the risk of getting banned, the ever changing API surface, the time you use for all of this, etc. etc.? You are NOT the owner of anything in the "metaverse". You are just allowed the privilege of playing in the platform owners sandbox as long as you pay. When the platform owner will decide it is profitable to exploit users ability to set wallpapers there is nothing you as a user or as a developer on top of the platform will be able to do to counter that. Here, read this (1) and watch this (2) and tell me you feel confident the same will not happen to any "metaverse". (1) https://pluralistic.net/2023/01/21/potemkin-ai/#hey-guys https://pluralistic.net/2023/01/21/potemkin-ai/#hey-guys (2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g16heGLKlTA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g16heGLKlTA