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$35k cash makes the dealership to file a currency transaction report with FinCen. For that matter, any entry/exit of untraceable monetary instruments(cash, mone

$35k cash makes the dealership to file a currency transaction report with FinCen. For that matter, any entry/exit of untraceable monetary instruments(cash, money orders) > $10k is filed as a CTR. This is not a big issue; people get panicked, then structure their transactions(multiple cash transactions each < $10k, but > $10k in total over time), thereby leading to a SAR(suspicious activity report). Mandatory reporters(banks, dealerships, remitters, etc) are obligated to file these reports. These can be used under Beria’s law ‘show me the man and I’ll show you the crime’.

latchkey 3y ago
I have some inheritance cash that I received when my grandma died. Right now, it is soaking up some nice 4.9% apy, but eventually I'd like to buy a car (waiting for the prices to crash a bit more). It is what she would have wanted (she bought me my first car). I can't wait to walk into a dealership, with cash, and find out what sort of criminal I am.
- tialaramex 3y ago
  There's no reason you would be a criminal, if they're comfortable taking so much cash (you didn't specify how much, dealers may vary in how willing they are to accept very large cash purchases) they will doubtless be comfortable filling out the mandatory reporting. The investigators are looking for patterns, and latchkey having one dead grandma and buying one car isn't a pattern. They can't see patterns if the data which would make up the pattern isn't recorded, so that why the data is collected.
  - eggy 3y ago
    Car dealers' comfort is proportional to governmental scrutiny and control of their finances and transactions, so I think this is still a big deal as we move further and further away from the ability to independently transact among ourselves without controlling middlemen (government, banks, etc.) centralizing and controlling this ability. Not to mention the big banks and governments moving to blockchain financial vehicles they sanction and ultimately control. Soon you will have to be fingerprinted for a SIM card here like in Saudi Arabia. I've lived in SE Asia where you can buy a SIM card from a convenience store. To get one in KSA, I would have had to have had a government ID or number, and they fingerprint you to get an account. You know, because only criminals, drug dealers, and others use "burner" phones; it's not about trying to track and control you ;)
  - latchkey 3y ago
    > mandatory reporting Why should I have to even be reported on though? It is my money and I'm just buying a car. I'm already registering the car with the state in multiple ways (DMV and insurance). >investigators are looking for patterns Oh, so now I have to be wary of falling into 'a pattern'... but that's ok cause what I'm doing isn't a pattern (today?). This whole concept of absurd levels of tracking and being treated like a criminal, is offensive.
    - raincom 3y ago
      > Why should I have to even be reported on though? Ask your politicians to get rid of the portions of the Bank Secrecy Act of 1970, portions that deal with SAR, CTR. https://www.fincen.gov/resources/statutes-and-regulations/bank-secrecy-act https://www.fincen.gov/resources/statutes-and-regulations/ba...
      - ultrasaurus 3y ago
        Or even just index it to inflation. $10k in 1970 is $80k today. One of those could be first & last month's rent in a major city or functional 3rd hand car, the other is at least adjacent to an interesting cash transaction.
- raincom 3y ago
  The way things work like this (based on court filings publicly available). Imagine some madam is involved in sex trafficking in the states. She comes under the radar of police and other investigative agencies. These agencies gather all circumstantial evidence, but still this evidence doesn't pass muster to convict this madam. However, she goes around and deposits at various ATMs of different banks (say, Chase, PNC, USBank). She thinks that she is smart by depositing $6K (split across three banks) every week. Over the time, AML algos at these banks look at the sliding window of her cash deposits: $10K every five weeks at every bank, and her profession doesn't match up to the story. All three banks file SARs with Fincen. Now the prosecutors dig through FinCen database, and convict her on the structuring charges, instead of sex trafficking. That's what Beria's law is: "Show me the man, I will find you the crime".

latchkey 3y ago

I have some inheritance cash that I received when my grandma died. Right now, it is soaking up some nice 4.9% apy, but eventually I'd like to buy a car (waiting for the prices to crash a bit more). It is what she would have wanted (she bought me my first car). I can't wait to walk into a dealership, with cash, and find out what sort of criminal I am.

tialaramex 3y ago
There's no reason you would be a criminal, if they're comfortable taking so much cash (you didn't specify how much, dealers may vary in how willing they are to accept very large cash purchases) they will doubtless be comfortable filling out the mandatory reporting. The investigators are looking for patterns, and latchkey having one dead grandma and buying one car isn't a pattern. They can't see patterns if the data which would make up the pattern isn't recorded, so that why the data is collected.
- eggy 3y ago
  Car dealers' comfort is proportional to governmental scrutiny and control of their finances and transactions, so I think this is still a big deal as we move further and further away from the ability to independently transact among ourselves without controlling middlemen (government, banks, etc.) centralizing and controlling this ability. Not to mention the big banks and governments moving to blockchain financial vehicles they sanction and ultimately control. Soon you will have to be fingerprinted for a SIM card here like in Saudi Arabia. I've lived in SE Asia where you can buy a SIM card from a convenience store. To get one in KSA, I would have had to have had a government ID or number, and they fingerprint you to get an account. You know, because only criminals, drug dealers, and others use "burner" phones; it's not about trying to track and control you ;)
- latchkey 3y ago
  > mandatory reporting Why should I have to even be reported on though? It is my money and I'm just buying a car. I'm already registering the car with the state in multiple ways (DMV and insurance). >investigators are looking for patterns Oh, so now I have to be wary of falling into 'a pattern'... but that's ok cause what I'm doing isn't a pattern (today?). This whole concept of absurd levels of tracking and being treated like a criminal, is offensive.
  - raincom 3y ago
    > Why should I have to even be reported on though? Ask your politicians to get rid of the portions of the Bank Secrecy Act of 1970, portions that deal with SAR, CTR. https://www.fincen.gov/resources/statutes-and-regulations/bank-secrecy-act https://www.fincen.gov/resources/statutes-and-regulations/ba...
    - ultrasaurus 3y ago
      Or even just index it to inflation. $10k in 1970 is $80k today. One of those could be first & last month's rent in a major city or functional 3rd hand car, the other is at least adjacent to an interesting cash transaction.
raincom 3y ago
The way things work like this (based on court filings publicly available). Imagine some madam is involved in sex trafficking in the states. She comes under the radar of police and other investigative agencies. These agencies gather all circumstantial evidence, but still this evidence doesn't pass muster to convict this madam. However, she goes around and deposits at various ATMs of different banks (say, Chase, PNC, USBank). She thinks that she is smart by depositing $6K (split across three banks) every week. Over the time, AML algos at these banks look at the sliding window of her cash deposits: $10K every five weeks at every bank, and her profession doesn't match up to the story. All three banks file SARs with Fincen. Now the prosecutors dig through FinCen database, and convict her on the structuring charges, instead of sex trafficking. That's what Beria's law is: "Show me the man, I will find you the crime".