4 ms·

First, he wasn't trying to go to Russia. He was routing himself to prevent being over allied controlled airspace so that they couldn't down his plane[1]. When t

First, he wasn't trying to go to Russia. He was routing himself to prevent being over allied controlled airspace so that they couldn't down his plane[1]. When the U.S. realized they couldn't get to him, they revoked his passport, which stranded him in Russia. That argument shouldn't even work now that the GOP fully embraces Russia as a good guy now. Second, Thomas Drake did everything you say is the right, he paid the price[2]: | The first is Thomas Drake, who blew the whistle on the | very same NSA activities 10 years before Snowden did. | Drake was a much higher-ranking NSA official than | Snowden, and he obeyed US whistleblower laws, raising | his concerns through official channels. And he got | crushed. | Drake was fired, arrested at dawn by gun-wielding FBI | agents, stripped of his security clearance, charged | with crimes that could have sent him to prison for | the rest of his life, and all but ruined financially | and professionally. The only job he could find | afterwards was working in an Apple store in suburban | Washington, where he remains today. Adding insult to | injury, his warnings about the dangers of the NSA’s | surveillance programme were largely ignored. [1] https://www.cnn.com/2013/07/02/world/americas/bolivia-presidential-plane/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2013/07/02/world/americas/bolivia-presid... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/may/22/how-pentagon-punished-nsa-whistleblowers https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/may/22/how-pentagon...

slg 3y ago
Why do people act like a passport is a magic document that is the only thing that allows people to cross borders? You don't need a passport to seek asylum. There are ways to leave Russia without boarding a commercial flight. He isn't Assange stuck in an embassy in which all entrances and exits could be easily monitored. There are ways he could have gotten himself smuggled out of Russia if that is what he truly wanted. And I'm not saying that Snowden's life wouldn't be hard staying in the US, but it is notable that your example of Drake and my example of Manning are both now free. If those are the worst case scenarios for Snowden if he stayed in the US, he would also now be living life as a free man at this point. I understand if you think going through that ordeal is unfair, but that is the life one chooses when they decide to become a whistleblower. It is also the morally superior route compared to going to a country with an even worse surveillance record, being forced to swear allegiance to that country, and according to Greenwald continuing to leak things "out of self-preservation".
- Volundr 3y ago
  > There are ways he could have gotten himself smuggled out of Russia if that is what he truly wanted. Wait what? Are you seriously asserting that if you place a random person in an airport in a random country that person is going to begin to have the knowledge needed to establish the right contacts (and pay them) to smuggle them out of the airport, much less the country? This isn't a spy thriller, Snowden is a computer geek, not Jason Borne.
  - slg 3y ago
    Snowden wasn't "a random person in an airport in a random country" forced to figure this out himself. He was an incredibly famous and important political figure that had numerous people, organizations, and even countries offering him help or helping him directly. This included both Wikileaks and the Venezuelan government who collaborated on plans to smuggle him out of Russia.
    - Volundr 3y ago
      I can't find any sources to back up your claim that Venezuela and WikiLeaks, or anyone for that matter were offering to smuggle Snowden anywhere, but hey let's take that at face value. We'll assume Venezuela was prepared to take the risk of very publicly smuggling someone out of a Russian airport (which Russia would of course be completely chill about), and the resources to do it successfully. In that scenario Snowden is taking an incredible risk to trade being stuck in Russia for being stuck in Venezuela, which is also considered a national security threat to the US and is also an authoritarian regime. How is that better?
      - slg 3y ago
        Source about smuggling him out[1] >Interviewed in August 2015 by the Bolivian newspaper El Deber, Assange stated that Wikileaks and the government of Venezuela discussed smuggling Snowden out of Russia aboard the presidential plane of either Venezuela or Bolivia. Source about his other options for asylum [2] >Venezuela, Nicaragua and Bolivia offer asylum to Edward Snowden The whole argument was that he was stuck in Russia because he couldn't get to where he really wanted. Where did he really want to go? From my understanding, that was Ecuador, but they didn't seem to want him there. I'm not judging Snowden specifically because he chose Russia over Venezuela. I am judging him for the hypocrisy of decrying US political oppression while fleeing to a country that is even more oppressive which seemed to be a forgone conclusion as soon as he left the US. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evo_Morales_grounding_incident#Julian_Assange's_statement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evo_Morales_grounding_incident... [2] - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/06/venezuela-nicaragua-offer-asylum-edward-snowden https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/06/venezuela-nica...
jjtheblunt 3y ago
> That argument shouldn't even work now that the GOP fully embraces Russia as a good guy now. What?

slg 3y ago

Why do people act like a passport is a magic document that is the only thing that allows people to cross borders? You don't need a passport to seek asylum. There are ways to leave Russia without boarding a commercial flight. He isn't Assange stuck in an embassy in which all entrances and exits could be easily monitored. There are ways he could have gotten himself smuggled out of Russia if that is what he truly wanted. And I'm not saying that Snowden's life wouldn't be hard staying in the US, but it is notable that your example of Drake and my example of Manning are both now free. If those are the worst case scenarios for Snowden if he stayed in the US, he would also now be living life as a free man at this point. I understand if you think going through that ordeal is unfair, but that is the life one chooses when they decide to become a whistleblower. It is also the morally superior route compared to going to a country with an even worse surveillance record, being forced to swear allegiance to that country, and according to Greenwald continuing to leak things "out of self-preservation".

Volundr 3y ago
> There are ways he could have gotten himself smuggled out of Russia if that is what he truly wanted. Wait what? Are you seriously asserting that if you place a random person in an airport in a random country that person is going to begin to have the knowledge needed to establish the right contacts (and pay them) to smuggle them out of the airport, much less the country? This isn't a spy thriller, Snowden is a computer geek, not Jason Borne.
- slg 3y ago
  Snowden wasn't "a random person in an airport in a random country" forced to figure this out himself. He was an incredibly famous and important political figure that had numerous people, organizations, and even countries offering him help or helping him directly. This included both Wikileaks and the Venezuelan government who collaborated on plans to smuggle him out of Russia.
  - Volundr 3y ago
    I can't find any sources to back up your claim that Venezuela and WikiLeaks, or anyone for that matter were offering to smuggle Snowden anywhere, but hey let's take that at face value. We'll assume Venezuela was prepared to take the risk of very publicly smuggling someone out of a Russian airport (which Russia would of course be completely chill about), and the resources to do it successfully. In that scenario Snowden is taking an incredible risk to trade being stuck in Russia for being stuck in Venezuela, which is also considered a national security threat to the US and is also an authoritarian regime. How is that better?
    - slg 3y ago
      Source about smuggling him out[1] >Interviewed in August 2015 by the Bolivian newspaper El Deber, Assange stated that Wikileaks and the government of Venezuela discussed smuggling Snowden out of Russia aboard the presidential plane of either Venezuela or Bolivia. Source about his other options for asylum [2] >Venezuela, Nicaragua and Bolivia offer asylum to Edward Snowden The whole argument was that he was stuck in Russia because he couldn't get to where he really wanted. Where did he really want to go? From my understanding, that was Ecuador, but they didn't seem to want him there. I'm not judging Snowden specifically because he chose Russia over Venezuela. I am judging him for the hypocrisy of decrying US political oppression while fleeing to a country that is even more oppressive which seemed to be a forgone conclusion as soon as he left the US. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evo_Morales_grounding_incident#Julian_Assange's_statement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evo_Morales_grounding_incident... [2] - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/06/venezuela-nicaragua-offer-asylum-edward-snowden https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/06/venezuela-nica...

jjtheblunt 3y ago

> That argument shouldn't even work now that the GOP fully embraces Russia as a good guy now. What?