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I have literally just learnt about colemak from these comments. I suffer from RSI and have tried Dvorak in the past, but as a qwerty touch typist found it too d

I have literally just learnt about colemak from these comments. I suffer from RSI and have tried Dvorak in the past, but as a qwerty touch typist found it too different. How long did it take you to learn colemak? I guess if you still use it you find it better than qwerty?

thatswrong0 3y ago
Not OP but: I’ve been using Colemak for 10+ years at this point.. I switched in the middle of a semester while getting my CS degree to A) learn to actually touch type and B) maybe help prevent RSI issues cause I knew I was gonna be programming for a while (and I have trash typing posture). It’s a struggle for maybe a month or two completely upending your muscle memory.. but retaining the locations of AZXCV from QWERTY did help a lot with transitioning. The hardest part for me was how S is moved one character over to where D is (took a while before I stopped making S related mistake..). I think I practiced typing every day deliberately for a few months until I didn’t feel like I had to consciously think about it anymore and was up to ~80WPM again. No regrets here.. and it’s always amusing watch people use my computer at first
WorldMaker 3y ago
I learned Colemak in a long weekend "cold turkey". I wasn't quite as fast after that weekend, but I felt so much better and more comfortable after just the weekend. (I was in grad school and in pain and knew I was probably weeks or months from an RSI surgery if I didn't change something.) The lesson plan I was using followed home row order and I knew I was "home" in Colemak in the first lessons because even in the first four "main finger" home row keys you start by typing entire, real English words, some of which can be quite long such as Tennessee. (That was always a problem for me in grade school QWERTY lessons was how much home row exercises were garbage and nonsense words.) I feel like that also added to the feeling that learning Colemak was fast and just took then one dedicated long weekend.
taeric 3y ago
I honestly don't remember how long it took. I know it took a couple of tries, but when I went "all in" it didn't take long. My speed is still not fully up to where I was, but I haven't been trying to improve. Specifically, I got up to 70ish and then just stopped caring. I'd hesitate to say I notice much of any difference. It makes me a little happy to have made the change. But, in the same way that moving a mouse to my off hand makes me happy. And is something I do every so often.
crimsontech 3y ago
I learned colemak for the same reason (RSI) but it didn’t help much, it was especially hard because I use multiple computers, RDP and other remote management systems and sometimes other peoples computers. I don’t know what the status is now, if all the OS have built in Colemak layouts but I don’t think they did at the time. I got rid of RSI by using a Kinesis advantage keyboard for a year (with qwerty layout). This must have gotten rid of any bad habits I had, I focused hard on not bottoming out hard on the keys too. After a year I switched to a topre keyboard and it hasn’t come back, it’s been over 10yrs.
microtonal 3y ago
I use Colemak-DH and learned it through the Tarmak progression. RSI is probably the wrong reason to learn Colemak. It made little difference for me and as far as I know there is no scientific evidence that it helps. Better: get an adjustable table and chair and ensure that they are correctly configured. Take regular breaks and do exercises. Get a keyboard that is split (to ensure that your wrists are not bent) and tented (to put our wrists at a more comfortable angle). Bonus points for column stagger. For me, switching to a Kinesis Advantage improved a lot to the point where I pretty much pain free. (IANAD, but personal experience.)
- nprateem 3y ago
  My MS ergonomic keyboard and vertical mouse definitely help. Never tried a Kinesis advantage though. I'll try it and see how I get on.
SkyPuncher 3y ago
It took me 4 weeks to get back to 50% speed. 4 months to get back to 75% speed. 4 years to type faster than Qwerty. I'm incredibly happy with my switch. I was getting RSI pain from awkward top-to-bottom row maneuvers with Qwerty. I still have some pain, but that's mostly from using the computer far too much. Most of the challenge is not about learning the new layout, but getting your muscle memory to forget about the old way of doing things. If I were to do it again, I'd recommend a progressive layout change; switching a single set of keys at a time. It takes longer to switch, but reduces the upfront mental load.
- nprateem 3y ago
  Thanks, that's encouraging. It's worth a go I guess. I'll probably spend 10-20 minutes per day using this [1] to progressively learn colemak-dh [1] https://www.colemak.academy/ https://www.colemak.academy/
hajile 3y ago
I found it to be more comfortable, so I stuck with it. If I could do it again though, I’d swap between the two as I learned as I’m now rather slow with qwerty.
- xpe 3y ago
  I know what you mean, though I question how such a transition would pan out. Any ideas of how well this tends to work as a learning strategy?
  - hajile 3y ago
    I have a friend who did it that way, but I’ve never done it myself.
    - xpe 3y ago
      Does your friend have 4 hands? If so, I would love to see 2 hands do QWERTY and 2 Colemak. And then swap hands. Then keyboards behind the back. Have I taken this joke too far? Or not far enough?
xpe 3y ago
I made the switch from Qwerty to Colemak over ten years ago. How long for me to transition from being quite fast at Qwerty to being happy enough with my Colemak speed? I'd guess roughly 2 to 4 weeks. As an independent software developer and entrepreneur at the time, it worked. I was mostly writing code, not having to write some heroic quantity of emails as a manager. In addition to the "typing feels better" benefit, I found the very process of changing to be quite beneficial in two ways: (1) I did more thinking in advance and more planning and therefore less unnecessary typing. This was very niiice. Please imagine Borat saying it for full effect. (2) The cognitive challenge of switching my primary mode of interaction with computers had a much broader effect on how I appreciated learning and habits in general. Conclusion: you have should switched yesterday from Qwerty to an APL keyboard. /s

thatswrong0 3y ago

Not OP but: I’ve been using Colemak for 10+ years at this point.. I switched in the middle of a semester while getting my CS degree to A) learn to actually touch type and B) maybe help prevent RSI issues cause I knew I was gonna be programming for a while (and I have trash typing posture). It’s a struggle for maybe a month or two completely upending your muscle memory.. but retaining the locations of AZXCV from QWERTY did help a lot with transitioning. The hardest part for me was how S is moved one character over to where D is (took a while before I stopped making S related mistake..). I think I practiced typing every day deliberately for a few months until I didn’t feel like I had to consciously think about it anymore and was up to ~80WPM again. No regrets here.. and it’s always amusing watch people use my computer at first

WorldMaker 3y ago

I learned Colemak in a long weekend "cold turkey". I wasn't quite as fast after that weekend, but I felt so much better and more comfortable after just the weekend. (I was in grad school and in pain and knew I was probably weeks or months from an RSI surgery if I didn't change something.) The lesson plan I was using followed home row order and I knew I was "home" in Colemak in the first lessons because even in the first four "main finger" home row keys you start by typing entire, real English words, some of which can be quite long such as Tennessee. (That was always a problem for me in grade school QWERTY lessons was how much home row exercises were garbage and nonsense words.) I feel like that also added to the feeling that learning Colemak was fast and just took then one dedicated long weekend.

taeric 3y ago

I honestly don't remember how long it took. I know it took a couple of tries, but when I went "all in" it didn't take long. My speed is still not fully up to where I was, but I haven't been trying to improve. Specifically, I got up to 70ish and then just stopped caring. I'd hesitate to say I notice much of any difference. It makes me a little happy to have made the change. But, in the same way that moving a mouse to my off hand makes me happy. And is something I do every so often.

crimsontech 3y ago

I learned colemak for the same reason (RSI) but it didn’t help much, it was especially hard because I use multiple computers, RDP and other remote management systems and sometimes other peoples computers. I don’t know what the status is now, if all the OS have built in Colemak layouts but I don’t think they did at the time. I got rid of RSI by using a Kinesis advantage keyboard for a year (with qwerty layout). This must have gotten rid of any bad habits I had, I focused hard on not bottoming out hard on the keys too. After a year I switched to a topre keyboard and it hasn’t come back, it’s been over 10yrs.

microtonal 3y ago

I use Colemak-DH and learned it through the Tarmak progression. RSI is probably the wrong reason to learn Colemak. It made little difference for me and as far as I know there is no scientific evidence that it helps. Better: get an adjustable table and chair and ensure that they are correctly configured. Take regular breaks and do exercises. Get a keyboard that is split (to ensure that your wrists are not bent) and tented (to put our wrists at a more comfortable angle). Bonus points for column stagger. For me, switching to a Kinesis Advantage improved a lot to the point where I pretty much pain free. (IANAD, but personal experience.)

nprateem 3y ago
My MS ergonomic keyboard and vertical mouse definitely help. Never tried a Kinesis advantage though. I'll try it and see how I get on.

SkyPuncher 3y ago

It took me 4 weeks to get back to 50% speed. 4 months to get back to 75% speed. 4 years to type faster than Qwerty. I'm incredibly happy with my switch. I was getting RSI pain from awkward top-to-bottom row maneuvers with Qwerty. I still have some pain, but that's mostly from using the computer far too much. Most of the challenge is not about learning the new layout, but getting your muscle memory to forget about the old way of doing things. If I were to do it again, I'd recommend a progressive layout change; switching a single set of keys at a time. It takes longer to switch, but reduces the upfront mental load.

nprateem 3y ago
Thanks, that's encouraging. It's worth a go I guess. I'll probably spend 10-20 minutes per day using this [1] to progressively learn colemak-dh [1] https://www.colemak.academy/ https://www.colemak.academy/

hajile 3y ago

I found it to be more comfortable, so I stuck with it. If I could do it again though, I’d swap between the two as I learned as I’m now rather slow with qwerty.

xpe 3y ago
I know what you mean, though I question how such a transition would pan out. Any ideas of how well this tends to work as a learning strategy?
- hajile 3y ago
  I have a friend who did it that way, but I’ve never done it myself.
  - xpe 3y ago
    Does your friend have 4 hands? If so, I would love to see 2 hands do QWERTY and 2 Colemak. And then swap hands. Then keyboards behind the back. Have I taken this joke too far? Or not far enough?

xpe 3y ago

I made the switch from Qwerty to Colemak over ten years ago. How long for me to transition from being quite fast at Qwerty to being happy enough with my Colemak speed? I'd guess roughly 2 to 4 weeks. As an independent software developer and entrepreneur at the time, it worked. I was mostly writing code, not having to write some heroic quantity of emails as a manager. In addition to the "typing feels better" benefit, I found the very process of changing to be quite beneficial in two ways: (1) I did more thinking in advance and more planning and therefore less unnecessary typing. This was very niiice. Please imagine Borat saying it for full effect. (2) The cognitive challenge of switching my primary mode of interaction with computers had a much broader effect on how I appreciated learning and habits in general. Conclusion: you have should switched yesterday from Qwerty to an APL keyboard. /s