5 ms·

Wait... WHAT?! 22, earning slightly more than market is a "awful" deal how? Do you think a 22 year old deserves more than market and a mess of equity to boot?

axod 18y ago
As the first tech/hacker hell yes.
- webwright 18y ago
  Why, exactly? Equity ain't free (I actually have a blog post on this: http://www.tonywright.com/2008/a-newbies-guide-to-startup-compensation-or-stock-options-will-make-me-rich/ http://www.tonywright.com/2008/a-newbies-guide-to-startup-co... ). You "buy" equity with risk and lower/no compensation. What is this guy risking? They are funded, so really the only risk is that the owners lose interest or run out of money (a risk you have working ANY small business-- or any business at all in this economy). Here's some guidelines on what you can expect if you're getting paid roughly market rates: http://venturehacks.com/articles/option-pool-shuffle#market http://venturehacks.com/articles/option-pool-shuffle#market
  - axod 18y ago
    If you are the main technical force behind making a product, you should be properly reimbursed for that. It's like a record label "employing" a solo artist singer for an average wage, and then pocketing all the profits from their music and passing none of it on. It's just a pretty raw deal.
  - strlen 18y ago
    If he's taking market compensation, shouldn't he at least receive a lower equity stake vs. no equity whatsoever? Start-ups will ask you 'do you prefer more shares, or more equity". You can take "market rate, little equity" as an option. "They're funded" is also mis-leading, as they're still in the process of getting an angel round. The guidelines and the post you've written (which are excellent, by the way) are more for "post series A, pre series B" stage rather "angel round, forming the core team by signing on the first technical person" stage.
abstractbill 18y ago
To clarify, I quoted his age because it means he can easily recover from this mistake (he's still young), not because I think a person's age should have any impact on how much they're paid. Apparently you believe age should have an impact on how much you get paid. Can you elaborate?
- netcan 18y ago
  Apparently you believe age should have an impact on how much you get paid. Can you elaborate? Well the reality is that it often does. Anyway, it's indicative of experience.
  - abstractbill 18y ago
    Anyway, it's indicative of experience. Occasionally. Less so for developers than for other careers.
    - netcan 18y ago
      True. But still developers still can expect salary to increase (double?) between year 1 & year 10. He's probably nearer year 1.
      - dgabriel 18y ago
        Mine quintupled, so there you have it. I did start at slave wages, though.
- webwright 18y ago
  Sure... In almost every single hiring situation, years of experience has a big effect on compensation. Age oftentimes correlates with years of experience. And years of experience correlates with value. As you say, not as much in coding as in other areas- but it still does. Exceptions abound, of course. There are plenty of well-paid morons with decades of experience and lots of young rockstars. But ask any programmer on the planet whether they got paid more or less 5 years ago (adjusted for inflation) and the majority will say "less".

axod 18y ago

As the first tech/hacker hell yes.

webwright 18y ago
Why, exactly? Equity ain't free (I actually have a blog post on this: http://www.tonywright.com/2008/a-newbies-guide-to-startup-compensation-or-stock-options-will-make-me-rich/ http://www.tonywright.com/2008/a-newbies-guide-to-startup-co... ). You "buy" equity with risk and lower/no compensation. What is this guy risking? They are funded, so really the only risk is that the owners lose interest or run out of money (a risk you have working ANY small business-- or any business at all in this economy). Here's some guidelines on what you can expect if you're getting paid roughly market rates: http://venturehacks.com/articles/option-pool-shuffle#market http://venturehacks.com/articles/option-pool-shuffle#market
- axod 18y ago
  If you are the main technical force behind making a product, you should be properly reimbursed for that. It's like a record label "employing" a solo artist singer for an average wage, and then pocketing all the profits from their music and passing none of it on. It's just a pretty raw deal.
- strlen 18y ago
  If he's taking market compensation, shouldn't he at least receive a lower equity stake vs. no equity whatsoever? Start-ups will ask you 'do you prefer more shares, or more equity". You can take "market rate, little equity" as an option. "They're funded" is also mis-leading, as they're still in the process of getting an angel round. The guidelines and the post you've written (which are excellent, by the way) are more for "post series A, pre series B" stage rather "angel round, forming the core team by signing on the first technical person" stage.

abstractbill 18y ago

To clarify, I quoted his age because it means he can easily recover from this mistake (he's still young), not because I think a person's age should have any impact on how much they're paid. Apparently you believe age should have an impact on how much you get paid. Can you elaborate?

netcan 18y ago
Apparently you believe age should have an impact on how much you get paid. Can you elaborate? Well the reality is that it often does. Anyway, it's indicative of experience.
- abstractbill 18y ago
  Anyway, it's indicative of experience. Occasionally. Less so for developers than for other careers.
  - netcan 18y ago
    True. But still developers still can expect salary to increase (double?) between year 1 & year 10. He's probably nearer year 1.
    - dgabriel 18y ago
      Mine quintupled, so there you have it. I did start at slave wages, though.
webwright 18y ago
Sure... In almost every single hiring situation, years of experience has a big effect on compensation. Age oftentimes correlates with years of experience. And years of experience correlates with value. As you say, not as much in coding as in other areas- but it still does. Exceptions abound, of course. There are plenty of well-paid morons with decades of experience and lots of young rockstars. But ask any programmer on the planet whether they got paid more or less 5 years ago (adjusted for inflation) and the majority will say "less".