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"The entire finance industry will repeat this quote for a thousand years as an example of Things To Not Put In Writing during employee training." Am I the only

"The entire finance industry will repeat this quote for a thousand years as an example of Things To Not Put In Writing during employee training." Am I the only one noticing that the quote complains about them putting it in writing and not actually doing it? Like the industry is more focused on avoiding logging your crimes and not actually committing crimes?

potatototoo99 3y ago
Some guy on twitter is not "the industry".
- draw_down 3y ago
  [dead]
- regularjack 3y ago
  patio11 is not "some guy".
  - loeg 3y ago
    Sure, but he isn't the entire industry, either.
  - cja 3y ago
    We are all some guy
  - MikeDelta 3y ago
    He has cred, but I also felt that this was from someone outside the finance industry because we have seen this all before. After the FX scandals with the 'Cartel' chatroom, the libor scandals, we've seen compliance digging through all your Bloomberg chats and mails to find just about anything that sounds dodgy. Crypto is new to this game, the other players have seen it before.
CoastalCoder 3y ago
I'm guessing the issue is that ot shows intent. Not sure if that matters for civil liability, but IIUC it can matter in criminal law.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
kristjansson 3y ago
“Don’t do crimes” is presumably already part of the training? This episode will stand forever as evidence that, regardless of whether you’re doing anything wrong, writing down an sentence that nakedly says your are is a Bad Idea. If you’re in the wrong, defending yourself just got a lot harder. If you weren’t actually in the wrong now you’ve created something you’ll have to defend yourself from.
- atoav 3y ago
  The question is whether the problem for your higher ups is you doing crimes or you getting caught doing crimes. Just as in safety culture, train all you will — if the lived culture is "rules are for losers" and people who follow them have it harder guess what is going to happen?
  - anlaw 3y ago
    Higher ups? The primate AI is hallucinating after decades of prompt injections. What obligation do we have to coddle “higher ups” figurative identity?
    - atoav 3y ago
      You are aware that my text is drenching with sarcasm aren't you?
  - pjc50 3y ago
    Ultimately business systems operate in a purely consequentialist matter: getting caught only matters because the punishment is bad for the stock price, and avoiding doing crimes is the only 99% reliable procedure for avoiding getting caught. There is a complicated limbo with things like LIBOR, where practice drifted into quietly rigging the number, first in phone calls and then chat channels, and everybody involved kind of forgot it might not be percieved as legal once the outside world realised what happened. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/libor-scandal.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/libor-scandal.asp
  - wonderwonder 3y ago
jdlshore 3y ago
patio11 has been calling out crypto fraud for a long time. You’re not noticing anything; you’re extrapolating incorrectly.
s1artibartfast 3y ago
I think you're missing the intent of the quote here entirely. It isn't complaining nor does one tweet mean it is the focus of an entire industry. I'm honestly curious how people jump to such conclusions
tootie 3y ago
It's been said that a cultural artifact of the pandemic era was "oversharing". People just being incredibly candid and loose with their personal feelings. And it's just bonkers how that has played out in the legal arena. I'm thinking in particular of the Dominion lawsuit against Fox where they just had all those texts admitting in completely uncoded direct language that they were lying on purpose.
- TheGigaChad 3y ago
  [dead]
- pjc50 3y ago
  I would ascribe that to a slightly different phenomena: Trump-era impunity. That was the point that people started doing all kinds of things that were previously Not Done and getting away with them. Fox could have carried on lying forever if they'd remembered not to libel a business, only individuals and minority groups.
- steve76 3y ago
  [dead]
fear_and_coffee 3y ago
[dead]
tomhoward 3y ago
Patrick has consistently been highly critical of the entire cryptocurrency industry for shady practices over many years. His condemnation for their breaches in this case is a given.

potatototoo99 3y ago

Some guy on twitter is not "the industry".

draw_down 3y ago
[dead]
regularjack 3y ago
patio11 is not "some guy".
- loeg 3y ago
  Sure, but he isn't the entire industry, either.
- cja 3y ago
  We are all some guy
- MikeDelta 3y ago
  He has cred, but I also felt that this was from someone outside the finance industry because we have seen this all before. After the FX scandals with the 'Cartel' chatroom, the libor scandals, we've seen compliance digging through all your Bloomberg chats and mails to find just about anything that sounds dodgy. Crypto is new to this game, the other players have seen it before.

CoastalCoder 3y ago

I'm guessing the issue is that ot shows intent. Not sure if that matters for civil liability, but IIUC it can matter in criminal law.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

kristjansson 3y ago

“Don’t do crimes” is presumably already part of the training? This episode will stand forever as evidence that, regardless of whether you’re doing anything wrong, writing down an sentence that nakedly says your are is a Bad Idea. If you’re in the wrong, defending yourself just got a lot harder. If you weren’t actually in the wrong now you’ve created something you’ll have to defend yourself from.

atoav 3y ago
The question is whether the problem for your higher ups is you doing crimes or you getting caught doing crimes. Just as in safety culture, train all you will — if the lived culture is "rules are for losers" and people who follow them have it harder guess what is going to happen?
- anlaw 3y ago
  Higher ups? The primate AI is hallucinating after decades of prompt injections. What obligation do we have to coddle “higher ups” figurative identity?
  - atoav 3y ago
    You are aware that my text is drenching with sarcasm aren't you?
- pjc50 3y ago
  Ultimately business systems operate in a purely consequentialist matter: getting caught only matters because the punishment is bad for the stock price, and avoiding doing crimes is the only 99% reliable procedure for avoiding getting caught. There is a complicated limbo with things like LIBOR, where practice drifted into quietly rigging the number, first in phone calls and then chat channels, and everybody involved kind of forgot it might not be percieved as legal once the outside world realised what happened. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/libor-scandal.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/libor-scandal.asp
- wonderwonder 3y ago

jdlshore 3y ago

patio11 has been calling out crypto fraud for a long time. You’re not noticing anything; you’re extrapolating incorrectly.

s1artibartfast 3y ago

I think you're missing the intent of the quote here entirely. It isn't complaining nor does one tweet mean it is the focus of an entire industry. I'm honestly curious how people jump to such conclusions

tootie 3y ago

It's been said that a cultural artifact of the pandemic era was "oversharing". People just being incredibly candid and loose with their personal feelings. And it's just bonkers how that has played out in the legal arena. I'm thinking in particular of the Dominion lawsuit against Fox where they just had all those texts admitting in completely uncoded direct language that they were lying on purpose.

TheGigaChad 3y ago
[dead]
pjc50 3y ago
I would ascribe that to a slightly different phenomena: Trump-era impunity. That was the point that people started doing all kinds of things that were previously Not Done and getting away with them. Fox could have carried on lying forever if they'd remembered not to libel a business, only individuals and minority groups.
steve76 3y ago
[dead]

fear_and_coffee 3y ago

[dead]

tomhoward 3y ago

Patrick has consistently been highly critical of the entire cryptocurrency industry for shady practices over many years. His condemnation for their breaches in this case is a given.