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Personally, I appreciate this effort, not for AAA games, because I never bought a MacBook expecting it to be able to...but for much more casual or lower poly ga

Personally, I appreciate this effort, not for AAA games, because I never bought a MacBook expecting it to be able to...but for much more casual or lower poly games that are available on Steam for Windows users only, because it's too hard to port. There's tons of sub-AAA games that could easily be ported and enjoyed on a modern M1/M2 Mac.

ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
Speaking only for myself, I use Macs to get work done. The lack of games is actually a plus, as I can get compulsive with games. It's funny, when people denigrate the worst gaming platform in the world as a "toy computer." People get Macs, that want to get work done. As noted previously, there's really nothing that can beat a well-built PC gaming rig. I don't really think Apple has ever cared about the Mac as a gaming platform, and the low-key hype around these technologies shows that. These almost seem like "developer 20% projects," compared to the big stuff, like visionOS. That said, I think that Apple wants iOS/iPadOS/visionOS to be gaming platforms, so they do dedicate a lot of resources to that.
- heyoni 3y ago
  I don’t know, you say that but there are plenty of triple A games in the App Store and Apple did put in the effort into getting their game subscription to work on their desktops. Let’s be real, we might all be getting more work done as a result but that’s because Apple dropped the ball, hard. They came out with the metal api but refused to support any others, even letting open GL fester. The fact that they couldn’t keep Blizzard of all companies developing games for the mac is all you need to know.
  - flashback2199 3y ago
    I'm curious if Apple dropped the ball or if there is still something of an anti-gaming culture inside Apple since I know that the company was de facto anti-gaming in the late 90s going forward. In that era they actively killed off relationships with gaming companies, e.g. the game that eventually became Halo was originally a Macintosh exclusive. More recent things like the legal theatrics with Epic Games gives one a picture of a company that is still not necessarily super keen on fully embracing the gaming scene.
    - kitsunesoba 3y ago
      > In that era they actively killed off relationships with gaming companies, e.g. the game that eventually became Halo was originally a Macintosh exclusive. That was Microsoft's doing, not Apple's. Microsoft scooped up Bungie to make Halo an Xbox exclusive (at least initially). This purportedly angered Steve Jobs, who probably wasn't too into gaming himself but understood the appeal it might have to consumers.
      - flashback2199 3y ago
        That isn't the version of history I remember reading about Bungie, but I suppose there are probably differing viewpoints about it. In any case, I do know that John Carmack has said that Steve Jobs told him back then that he should stop working on games and work on operating systems instead, and that he generally did not like them.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
    - spectre3d 3y ago
      >eventually became Halo Halo was introduced by Steve Jobs at MacWorld as an upcoming Mac game. It was always called Halo. “This is not QuickTime. Everything you’re about to see is being rendered in real time on a Macintosh using OpenGL.” [1] Then Microsoft bought Bungie and made Halo an Xbox-exclusive launch title. [2] > de facto anti-gaming in the late 90s going forward In 1997, the Power Mac 6500 shipped with MechWarrior 2 and Descent 2. Between 1999 and 2005, Bugdom, Nanosaur, Cro-Mag Rally and Otto Matic by Pangea as well as Deimos Rising shipped as built-in platform games on various iMacs and iBooks, the G4 Cube, and the eMac. Tony Hawk’s Pro Skater 4 came with one model of eMac. Nanosaur 2 and Marble Blast were bundled with later iMacs, iBooks, eMacs and the Mac mini. [3] [1] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Lxdgo1rFcxU https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Lxdgo1rFcxU [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bungie#:~:text=Microsoft%20acquired%20Bungie%20in%202000,and%20spawning%20the%20Halo%20franchise https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bungie#:~:text=Microsoft%20a.... [3] https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/405405/what-third-party-games-have-been-included-with-macs-at-some-point https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/405405/what-third-...
  - mrtranscendence 3y ago
    > there are plenty of triple A games in the App Store Mobile AAA games in the iOS App Store, or desktop AAA games in the Mac App Store? There are some AAAs that work on a desktop Mac (e.g. Resident Evil Village), but it's not the norm at all. As for mobile ... modern mobile games can die in a fire for all I care (as they're 95% gacha nonsense).
    - heyoni 3y ago
      I misspoke. A handful of triple A games. Most of which don't perform so well even on high end intel machines due to thermal throttling.
- bombcar 3y ago
  For a large number of customers, Macs play games just fine (you can get SimCity 4 for Silicon, heh). It's not the top of the line, but it covers a decent swath, even without doing emulation or translation.
  - artificial 3y ago
    SimCity 4 was released in 2003.
    - bombcar 3y ago
      Yep. The surprising thing is that Asypr bothered updating a 20 year old game for Apple Silicon. https://support.aspyr.com/hc/en-us/articles/12168615035405-How-to-access-the-Apple-Silicon-update-on-Mac-Steam-SimCity-4-Deluxe-Edition https://support.aspyr.com/hc/en-us/articles/12168615035405-H...
      - dunham 3y ago
        That is interesting - I bought KOTOR 2 a couple years ago for my kid and ended up having to get a refund it because it didn't run at all (on intel). It just wedged when I clicked play. No response from Aspyr, so I'd assumed they abandoned their older games.
        bombcar 3y ago
        I think they did it because they still sell SC4 via the App Store, but I'm not sure. Maybe someone there is just a huge SC4 fan.
- hedora 3y ago
  > It's funny, when people denigrate the worst gaming platform in the world as a "toy computer." Unless you're developing iOS apps or MacOS apps, it's pretty terrible as a work platform too. I guess iWork is OK, but no one uses it, so it's not helpful for collaboration. Maybe people use it for media production? Doesn't the big rendering still happen on Linux though, and hasn't windows caught up? Having said that, Mac laptops made passable web browser + video phone + dumb terminal in the intel days, and now they're excellent at those things and added "virtualization host" to that list. I guess I've always thought of them more like glorified vt100s than like computers. They're certainly market leaders for that use case, though WSL is helping windows catch up.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
    Well, I write MacOS/iOS/WatchOS/iPadOS/visionOS stuff, so I'm dependent on it. Like most tools, we get used to our main one, and can sometimes get a bit "sneery" about alternate ones. The Mac is a particularly rich target, because the "snootiness" is actually a deliberate brand ploy by Apple, and pretty much "leads with the chin," so we have that. I've never been "snooty" about Apple, but it's been my platform for over 30 years, so I'm used to it, and I get a lot done with my Mac.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    > guess iWork is OK, but no one uses it, so it's not helpful for collaboration You realize Microsoft Office has been on the Mac since the mid 80s right? > Maybe people use it for media production? Uhh yes?
    - hedora 3y ago
      Microsoft Office has always been sub-par on Mac, and I haven't worked at a company that uses it for collaboration for over a decade. (Sure, there's the occasional person that actually needs VB macros under Excel, or prefers powerpoint, but there's no reason for me to run it.) I know you can use them for media production. Looking around, it sounds like they still own the low-end with iMovie, but it gets questionable as hardware requirements increase. I guess it's a viable platform for that. I know a lot of CAD software is missing MacOS ports, so they seem to have lost that market. Anyway, I'll continue to think of my laptop as a dumb terminal with a good hypervisor bolted on the side.
- chrisco255 3y ago
  > I use Macs to get work done Ok, uninstall Steam then, I guess? Games do currently exist on Mac, both in the App store and on Steam. It's just that there's a big swath of games that haven't been ported to Apple Silicon in particular, due to difficulty. I grew up playing games on the Mac, so I'm not sure what your point is.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
    So why the challenging and abrasive approach? Did what I write offend you? I certainly didn’t mean to, and apologize for my tone. I have no interest in picking fights online, especially in a professional venue, where folks that could have a significant impact on my career are watching how I interact with others.
    - chrisco255 3y ago
      Well HN has the ability to create arbitrary screen names to create pseudo anonymity. So there's that. I guess what appears to be abrasive is just lacking tone. It's just me being mildly exasperated for effect. My point is to stress that the Mac has always been a general purpose computing device. Jobs may have chosen to optimize the Mac for productivity in the 90s, and that probably stemmed from the niches that were available to Apple in the Windows-dominated 90s and 00s (that he learned from running NeXT). The lack of upgradeable components also held the Mac back in graphics technology which precluded it from premium games market. But the M1/M2 chips are game changers. But since they're newish and the Windows market is so established and ARM chips are different from traditional x86 based chips, it's tough to get devs to port for Mac. If they can provide tooling that automates it, it's a great win for Apple.
      - ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
        > pseudo anonymity Unfortunately, that "pseudo" is rapidly dwindling. I know that there are already AI "decloakers," that look at writing style, and do a damn good job of finding folks, based on that. I was a UseNet troll, back in my day. It was not my proudest moment. One of the reasons that I deliberately make myself known, is that it forces me to watch my words, just like IRL. My career is done. I am retired (not by choice), and continue to work, but at what I want, and the way that I want to do it. Basically, a dream come true. I am not particularly worried about upsetting folks for my career, but I also feel I have a great deal of atonement due, because of my past behavior. I like the Apple ecosystem. I've been using it to be highly productive since 1986, and have been playing games on it forever. I remember Pathways Into Darkness[0], thirty years ago, which I thought was awesome. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathways_into_Darkness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathways_into_Darkness
- musicale 3y ago
  > It's funny, when people denigrate the worst gaming platform in the world as a "toy computer." When did toys become a bad thing? "Worst gaming platform in the world" may be something of an exaggeration - Apple Arcade isn't bad, and Macs can also run many iPad games.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
    Good point, but many Mac users are not aware of just How. Damn. Good. games play on gaming rigs. It's like being in a movie.
    - musicale 3y ago
      Many console gamers aren't aware of how [well] games play on PC gaming rigs, or they don't care, and are happy to play games on Switch/PS4/PS5/Xbox. Apple may very well be targeting mobile and console gamers rather than PC gamers with gaming rigs. Personally I would definitely enjoy playing on a high-end gaming PC (especially as GPUs become easier to find at MSRP), but I already have a Mac and a PS5. I wouldn't mind more of my Steam library working on macOS though.

ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago

Speaking only for myself, I use Macs to get work done. The lack of games is actually a plus, as I can get compulsive with games. It's funny, when people denigrate the worst gaming platform in the world as a "toy computer." People get Macs, that want to get work done. As noted previously, there's really nothing that can beat a well-built PC gaming rig. I don't really think Apple has ever cared about the Mac as a gaming platform, and the low-key hype around these technologies shows that. These almost seem like "developer 20% projects," compared to the big stuff, like visionOS. That said, I think that Apple wants iOS/iPadOS/visionOS to be gaming platforms, so they do dedicate a lot of resources to that.

heyoni 3y ago
I don’t know, you say that but there are plenty of triple A games in the App Store and Apple did put in the effort into getting their game subscription to work on their desktops. Let’s be real, we might all be getting more work done as a result but that’s because Apple dropped the ball, hard. They came out with the metal api but refused to support any others, even letting open GL fester. The fact that they couldn’t keep Blizzard of all companies developing games for the mac is all you need to know.
- flashback2199 3y ago
  I'm curious if Apple dropped the ball or if there is still something of an anti-gaming culture inside Apple since I know that the company was de facto anti-gaming in the late 90s going forward. In that era they actively killed off relationships with gaming companies, e.g. the game that eventually became Halo was originally a Macintosh exclusive. More recent things like the legal theatrics with Epic Games gives one a picture of a company that is still not necessarily super keen on fully embracing the gaming scene.
  - kitsunesoba 3y ago
    > In that era they actively killed off relationships with gaming companies, e.g. the game that eventually became Halo was originally a Macintosh exclusive. That was Microsoft's doing, not Apple's. Microsoft scooped up Bungie to make Halo an Xbox exclusive (at least initially). This purportedly angered Steve Jobs, who probably wasn't too into gaming himself but understood the appeal it might have to consumers.
    - flashback2199 3y ago
      That isn't the version of history I remember reading about Bungie, but I suppose there are probably differing viewpoints about it. In any case, I do know that John Carmack has said that Steve Jobs told him back then that he should stop working on games and work on operating systems instead, and that he generally did not like them.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
  - spectre3d 3y ago
    >eventually became Halo Halo was introduced by Steve Jobs at MacWorld as an upcoming Mac game. It was always called Halo. “This is not QuickTime. Everything you’re about to see is being rendered in real time on a Macintosh using OpenGL.” [1] Then Microsoft bought Bungie and made Halo an Xbox-exclusive launch title. [2] > de facto anti-gaming in the late 90s going forward In 1997, the Power Mac 6500 shipped with MechWarrior 2 and Descent 2. Between 1999 and 2005, Bugdom, Nanosaur, Cro-Mag Rally and Otto Matic by Pangea as well as Deimos Rising shipped as built-in platform games on various iMacs and iBooks, the G4 Cube, and the eMac. Tony Hawk’s Pro Skater 4 came with one model of eMac. Nanosaur 2 and Marble Blast were bundled with later iMacs, iBooks, eMacs and the Mac mini. [3] [1] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Lxdgo1rFcxU https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Lxdgo1rFcxU [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bungie#:~:text=Microsoft%20acquired%20Bungie%20in%202000,and%20spawning%20the%20Halo%20franchise https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bungie#:~:text=Microsoft%20a.... [3] https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/405405/what-third-party-games-have-been-included-with-macs-at-some-point https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/405405/what-third-...
- mrtranscendence 3y ago
  > there are plenty of triple A games in the App Store Mobile AAA games in the iOS App Store, or desktop AAA games in the Mac App Store? There are some AAAs that work on a desktop Mac (e.g. Resident Evil Village), but it's not the norm at all. As for mobile ... modern mobile games can die in a fire for all I care (as they're 95% gacha nonsense).
  - heyoni 3y ago
    I misspoke. A handful of triple A games. Most of which don't perform so well even on high end intel machines due to thermal throttling.
bombcar 3y ago
For a large number of customers, Macs play games just fine (you can get SimCity 4 for Silicon, heh). It's not the top of the line, but it covers a decent swath, even without doing emulation or translation.
- artificial 3y ago
  SimCity 4 was released in 2003.
  - bombcar 3y ago
    Yep. The surprising thing is that Asypr bothered updating a 20 year old game for Apple Silicon. https://support.aspyr.com/hc/en-us/articles/12168615035405-How-to-access-the-Apple-Silicon-update-on-Mac-Steam-SimCity-4-Deluxe-Edition https://support.aspyr.com/hc/en-us/articles/12168615035405-H...
    - dunham 3y ago
      That is interesting - I bought KOTOR 2 a couple years ago for my kid and ended up having to get a refund it because it didn't run at all (on intel). It just wedged when I clicked play. No response from Aspyr, so I'd assumed they abandoned their older games.
      - bombcar 3y ago
        I think they did it because they still sell SC4 via the App Store, but I'm not sure. Maybe someone there is just a huge SC4 fan.
hedora 3y ago
> It's funny, when people denigrate the worst gaming platform in the world as a "toy computer." Unless you're developing iOS apps or MacOS apps, it's pretty terrible as a work platform too. I guess iWork is OK, but no one uses it, so it's not helpful for collaboration. Maybe people use it for media production? Doesn't the big rendering still happen on Linux though, and hasn't windows caught up? Having said that, Mac laptops made passable web browser + video phone + dumb terminal in the intel days, and now they're excellent at those things and added "virtualization host" to that list. I guess I've always thought of them more like glorified vt100s than like computers. They're certainly market leaders for that use case, though WSL is helping windows catch up.
- ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
  Well, I write MacOS/iOS/WatchOS/iPadOS/visionOS stuff, so I'm dependent on it. Like most tools, we get used to our main one, and can sometimes get a bit "sneery" about alternate ones. The Mac is a particularly rich target, because the "snootiness" is actually a deliberate brand ploy by Apple, and pretty much "leads with the chin," so we have that. I've never been "snooty" about Apple, but it's been my platform for over 30 years, so I'm used to it, and I get a lot done with my Mac.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  > guess iWork is OK, but no one uses it, so it's not helpful for collaboration You realize Microsoft Office has been on the Mac since the mid 80s right? > Maybe people use it for media production? Uhh yes?
  - hedora 3y ago
    Microsoft Office has always been sub-par on Mac, and I haven't worked at a company that uses it for collaboration for over a decade. (Sure, there's the occasional person that actually needs VB macros under Excel, or prefers powerpoint, but there's no reason for me to run it.) I know you can use them for media production. Looking around, it sounds like they still own the low-end with iMovie, but it gets questionable as hardware requirements increase. I guess it's a viable platform for that. I know a lot of CAD software is missing MacOS ports, so they seem to have lost that market. Anyway, I'll continue to think of my laptop as a dumb terminal with a good hypervisor bolted on the side.
chrisco255 3y ago
> I use Macs to get work done Ok, uninstall Steam then, I guess? Games do currently exist on Mac, both in the App store and on Steam. It's just that there's a big swath of games that haven't been ported to Apple Silicon in particular, due to difficulty. I grew up playing games on the Mac, so I'm not sure what your point is.
- ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
  So why the challenging and abrasive approach? Did what I write offend you? I certainly didn’t mean to, and apologize for my tone. I have no interest in picking fights online, especially in a professional venue, where folks that could have a significant impact on my career are watching how I interact with others.
  - chrisco255 3y ago
    Well HN has the ability to create arbitrary screen names to create pseudo anonymity. So there's that. I guess what appears to be abrasive is just lacking tone. It's just me being mildly exasperated for effect. My point is to stress that the Mac has always been a general purpose computing device. Jobs may have chosen to optimize the Mac for productivity in the 90s, and that probably stemmed from the niches that were available to Apple in the Windows-dominated 90s and 00s (that he learned from running NeXT). The lack of upgradeable components also held the Mac back in graphics technology which precluded it from premium games market. But the M1/M2 chips are game changers. But since they're newish and the Windows market is so established and ARM chips are different from traditional x86 based chips, it's tough to get devs to port for Mac. If they can provide tooling that automates it, it's a great win for Apple.
    - ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
      > pseudo anonymity Unfortunately, that "pseudo" is rapidly dwindling. I know that there are already AI "decloakers," that look at writing style, and do a damn good job of finding folks, based on that. I was a UseNet troll, back in my day. It was not my proudest moment. One of the reasons that I deliberately make myself known, is that it forces me to watch my words, just like IRL. My career is done. I am retired (not by choice), and continue to work, but at what I want, and the way that I want to do it. Basically, a dream come true. I am not particularly worried about upsetting folks for my career, but I also feel I have a great deal of atonement due, because of my past behavior. I like the Apple ecosystem. I've been using it to be highly productive since 1986, and have been playing games on it forever. I remember Pathways Into Darkness[0], thirty years ago, which I thought was awesome. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathways_into_Darkness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathways_into_Darkness
musicale 3y ago
> It's funny, when people denigrate the worst gaming platform in the world as a "toy computer." When did toys become a bad thing? "Worst gaming platform in the world" may be something of an exaggeration - Apple Arcade isn't bad, and Macs can also run many iPad games.
- ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
  Good point, but many Mac users are not aware of just How. Damn. Good. games play on gaming rigs. It's like being in a movie.
  - musicale 3y ago
    Many console gamers aren't aware of how [well] games play on PC gaming rigs, or they don't care, and are happy to play games on Switch/PS4/PS5/Xbox. Apple may very well be targeting mobile and console gamers rather than PC gamers with gaming rigs. Personally I would definitely enjoy playing on a high-end gaming PC (especially as GPUs become easier to find at MSRP), but I already have a Mac and a PS5. I wouldn't mind more of my Steam library working on macOS though.