5 ms·

Fantastic would be 25fps, this isn't there yet.

manuelabeledo 3y ago
The tool is not meant to be used for that. It is fantastic in the sense that it was achieved with no changes to the game whatsoever. I'm wondering if this is also translating the binary with Rosetta.
- eliasmacpherson 3y ago
  Well if there are no changes made to the game whatsoever, then it has to be using Rosetta. Fantastic would be DXVK approximate levels of performance hit. This is far short of that.
  - manuelabeledo 3y ago
    DXVK does not support DirectX 12, and does only half of the job, missing the CPU instruction translations.
    - eliasmacpherson 3y ago
      I was referring to the performance of DXVK not its feature support. Expecting DXVK to do Rosetta itself is beyond ridiculous.
      - manuelabeledo 3y ago
        I agree: comparing Rosetta plus the graphics API translation layer, with DXVK, which only accomplishes the latter, is ridiculous. Here is what you said, though: > Fantastic would be DXVK approximate levels of performance hit. This is far short of that.
        eliasmacpherson 3y ago
        Rosetta is a known quantity of approximately 20% of a drop. DXVK can do about a 20% performance drop in certain situations, and perform better than that in others. This is at about 50% performance drop translating DX12 to Metal, on top of the drop from Rosetta.
        manuelabeledo 3y ago
        50% drop of what? Where are you getting your baseline from? Because, as far as I know, there is no native macOS port of Cyberpunk 2077. At 1440p, and if we take this [0] at face value, it would be 50% of the performance of a RX 6700 XT paired with a 5950X, both desktop parts, which I think is pretty good. [0] https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/cyberpunk-2077-pc-performance-guide/?amp https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/cyberpunk-2077-pc-pe...
        eliasmacpherson 3y ago
        Please don't use amp links. The m1 gpu is broadly equivalent to a gtx 1650 in a host of benchmarks. This is getting less than half the fps a gtx 1650 does at these settings, and I am being charitable. I don't know why you are looking at 1440p (2560 x 1440) as the m1 here is running at 1440x900. While I'm there, that 6700 XT posts 50fps, half of which is 25fps, which would indeed be alright. However this is putting out less than 15fps most of the time. Have a nice day.
        manuelabeledo 3y ago
        > I don't know why you are looking at 1440p (2560 x 1440) as the m1 here is running at 1440x900. Ah, you are right, I messed up with the resolution. > The m1 gpu is broadly equivalent to a gtx 1650 in a host of benchmarks. Which ones? > This is getting less than half the fps a gtx 1650 does at these settings, and I am being charitable. ... without having to emulate both CPU architecture and graphics layer. I mean, this is not really a debate. DXVK is not comparable, Wine does not do the same either. We are talking about translating both CPU instructions and graphic API calls in real time, good enough that a triple A game runs without any modification on a laptop with 16GB of shared memory.
- GeekyBear 3y ago
  > I'm wondering if this is also translating the binary with Rosetta. It is. >Game Porting Toolkit can translate controller inputs, audio and graphics APIs, CPU instructions, and other APIs automatically. https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/apple-enabled-thousands-windows-games-mac/ https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/apple-enabled-thousa...
cultureswitch 3y ago
25 FPS wouldn't be any more playable
- m_eiman 3y ago
  Bah, when I was young we used to DREAM about 25 FPS! I have fond(?) memories of playing Doom on a 386 with a monochrome passive TFT screen.
AndroTux 3y ago
That is on an M1 laptop. No dedicated GPU, not even an M1 Max. Just plain M1. Of course, it's not running super fast on Ultra settings, but imagine how slow it would be on a comparable Intel laptop with onboard graphics eating through your battery. Especially considering it only costs $1,299, which is not a lot for this kind of performance. And then it's not even an x86 CPU, for which Cyberpunk was developed. So yes, it's fantastic.
- eliasmacpherson 3y ago
  If you want to set the bar that low for fantastic, be my guest. Fps per dollar, any metric I can think of is lousy. You've not convinced me. Was impressed by Rosetta, but not this game porting toolkit, for the record.
  - WhereIsTheTruth 3y ago
    This not only does DX12 -> Metal, it also does X86 -> ARM, and still manages to give you decent performance if you lower the graphics settings, you can manage easily 30fps, wich is enough on a laptop, considering it runs with a battery So for 2020 laptop chip, it's pretty great achievement I'd say! I don't know of any project that does X86 -> ARM this well
    - eliasmacpherson 3y ago
      don't confuse Rosetta with this game porting toolkit.
- madeofpalk 3y ago
  No Apple hardware has a "dedicated GPU".

The tool is not meant to be used for that. It is fantastic in the sense that it was achieved with no changes to the game whatsoever. I'm wondering if this is also translating the binary with Rosetta.

eliasmacpherson 3y ago
Well if there are no changes made to the game whatsoever, then it has to be using Rosetta. Fantastic would be DXVK approximate levels of performance hit. This is far short of that.
- manuelabeledo 3y ago
  DXVK does not support DirectX 12, and does only half of the job, missing the CPU instruction translations.
  - eliasmacpherson 3y ago
    I was referring to the performance of DXVK not its feature support. Expecting DXVK to do Rosetta itself is beyond ridiculous.
    - manuelabeledo 3y ago
      I agree: comparing Rosetta plus the graphics API translation layer, with DXVK, which only accomplishes the latter, is ridiculous. Here is what you said, though: > Fantastic would be DXVK approximate levels of performance hit. This is far short of that.
      - eliasmacpherson 3y ago
        Rosetta is a known quantity of approximately 20% of a drop. DXVK can do about a 20% performance drop in certain situations, and perform better than that in others. This is at about 50% performance drop translating DX12 to Metal, on top of the drop from Rosetta.
        manuelabeledo 3y ago
        50% drop of what? Where are you getting your baseline from? Because, as far as I know, there is no native macOS port of Cyberpunk 2077. At 1440p, and if we take this [0] at face value, it would be 50% of the performance of a RX 6700 XT paired with a 5950X, both desktop parts, which I think is pretty good. [0] https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/cyberpunk-2077-pc-performance-guide/?amp https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/cyberpunk-2077-pc-pe...
        eliasmacpherson 3y ago
        Please don't use amp links. The m1 gpu is broadly equivalent to a gtx 1650 in a host of benchmarks. This is getting less than half the fps a gtx 1650 does at these settings, and I am being charitable. I don't know why you are looking at 1440p (2560 x 1440) as the m1 here is running at 1440x900. While I'm there, that 6700 XT posts 50fps, half of which is 25fps, which would indeed be alright. However this is putting out less than 15fps most of the time. Have a nice day.
        manuelabeledo 3y ago
        > I don't know why you are looking at 1440p (2560 x 1440) as the m1 here is running at 1440x900. Ah, you are right, I messed up with the resolution. > The m1 gpu is broadly equivalent to a gtx 1650 in a host of benchmarks. Which ones? > This is getting less than half the fps a gtx 1650 does at these settings, and I am being charitable. ... without having to emulate both CPU architecture and graphics layer. I mean, this is not really a debate. DXVK is not comparable, Wine does not do the same either. We are talking about translating both CPU instructions and graphic API calls in real time, good enough that a triple A game runs without any modification on a laptop with 16GB of shared memory.
GeekyBear 3y ago
> I'm wondering if this is also translating the binary with Rosetta. It is. >Game Porting Toolkit can translate controller inputs, audio and graphics APIs, CPU instructions, and other APIs automatically. https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/apple-enabled-thousands-windows-games-mac/ https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/apple-enabled-thousa...

cultureswitch 3y ago

25 FPS wouldn't be any more playable

m_eiman 3y ago
Bah, when I was young we used to DREAM about 25 FPS! I have fond(?) memories of playing Doom on a 386 with a monochrome passive TFT screen.

AndroTux 3y ago

That is on an M1 laptop. No dedicated GPU, not even an M1 Max. Just plain M1. Of course, it's not running super fast on Ultra settings, but imagine how slow it would be on a comparable Intel laptop with onboard graphics eating through your battery. Especially considering it only costs $1,299, which is not a lot for this kind of performance. And then it's not even an x86 CPU, for which Cyberpunk was developed. So yes, it's fantastic.

eliasmacpherson 3y ago
If you want to set the bar that low for fantastic, be my guest. Fps per dollar, any metric I can think of is lousy. You've not convinced me. Was impressed by Rosetta, but not this game porting toolkit, for the record.
- WhereIsTheTruth 3y ago
  This not only does DX12 -> Metal, it also does X86 -> ARM, and still manages to give you decent performance if you lower the graphics settings, you can manage easily 30fps, wich is enough on a laptop, considering it runs with a battery So for 2020 laptop chip, it's pretty great achievement I'd say! I don't know of any project that does X86 -> ARM this well
  - eliasmacpherson 3y ago
    don't confuse Rosetta with this game porting toolkit.
madeofpalk 3y ago
No Apple hardware has a "dedicated GPU".