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I don't see phone as being equivalent to a VR headset. Phone is just a few sq. inches of distraction whereas the VR stuff is a 360 degree false world full of de

I don't see phone as being equivalent to a VR headset. Phone is just a few sq. inches of distraction whereas the VR stuff is a 360 degree false world full of delusion.

BulgarianIdiot 3y ago
In your mind it's not that different. Consider the importance of media on shaping your thoughts, beliefs, memories, emotions. Whether delivered through a cinema screen or a tiny phone doesn't matter. VR/AR has wow factor, but you quickly get used to it, and then your concerns are mostly pragmatic: the headset is huge, the battery life short and so on. Although AR at least has pass through, which is a big benefit, as it doesn't completely hide your real surroundings.
- Jochim 3y ago
  I'm a fan of VR/AR but found Apple's reveal video to be profoundly sad. There's a sense of isolation running through the whole thing. The immediate connection many people made was to Black Mirror. The father wearing the headset and recording his children play around him really hit that note. From the children's perspective, instead of their father's face they see a pair of black goggles and rather than their father's eyes they see a digital facsimile.
  - ChuckNorris89 3y ago
    >The father wearing the headset and recording his children play around him really hit that note. "Hold still son so I can record this moment, I've only got 10 minutes out of the 2h of battery left on this headset" lol The mental illnesses kids will have growing up with tech addicted parents are gonna be epic. Therapists are gonna be printing money.
    - kanbara 3y ago
      people already film their kids on their phone, take live photos of their dogs, and tiktok/insta themselves in a cool place. having the ability to share parts of our lives remotely and also remember them is profound. i often look back at photos of the past few years, and remark at memories i've forgotten, places i've been, and i share those things with others as well. sure no one wants 10 people in a room interacting thru their apple vision pro, but i really don't think it's fundamentally different. and if i could have a 3d video of my deceased family that looks more real than a photo, i'd love that. look at the parts of the tech that connect us more; there will always be negative things, loners, tech addicts, etc. and as for the mental illness quip, i honestly don't have an answer because it's so outlandish we can't even begin to quantify it
      - ChuckNorris89 3y ago
        You must be fun at parties
  - chasd00 3y ago
    > The father wearing the headset and recording his children play around him really hit that note Yeah that was a mistake. It should have been a worker recording how to assemble something to make a training vid. The family recording thing probably turned off a lot of people.
    - alexvoda 3y ago
      Precisely. Some mechanical training or live assistance is entirely plausible. I experienced a similar thing with HoloLens and other than the limited FOV it was really convincing as a tool. Apple unironically going for the dystopia angle is a weird flex.
  - satyrnein 3y ago
    I mostly agree, but on the other hand: when I was a kid in the 80s, my dad spent my birthday parties walking around with a shoulder mounted video camera. It was lame, but not quite dystopian.
piva00 3y ago
And people get completely sucked into those few sq. inches of screen, tuning off from the real world. In my life it got to a point with some friends where I introduced the idea of everyone taking their phones out and putting them face down on a stack on the table, if you really need to check your phone for something important one has to voice out "I need to check my phone", taking a break from hanging out to check it. It annoys me to no end when in the middle of a conversation someone takes their phone out just to check a message, or Instagram, or any kind of trivial notification, and end up lost in it for a few minutes, it's been really great to make them more aware of the behaviour as it completely tunes me off from a conversation seeing someone you're trying to communicate with staring intensely into their screens. At least in VR I know that they aren't present, easier to adjust, with phones it just annoys me absolutely.
- eloisant 3y ago
  This is just good manners, I don't check my phone in the middle of a conversation and my friends don't do it either. I also teach my kids not to do that.
  - piva00 3y ago
    I can't expect that every single person I met or I'm friends with will adhere to "just good manners", given the ubiquitous presence of those few sq. inches of screens around us there will always be instances where good manners aren't followed.
    - arcatech 3y ago
      So what’s your point again? Is the Apple Vision making things better or worse?
cal85 3y ago
It’s the world of instant information and social contact that makes phones distracting, not the screen dimensions. Actually I’d say the small screen form factor makes this problem even worse - makes it socially acceptable to be half-present with people, the worst thing. It feels like no big deal to glance at a phone while talking to someone, and feels churlish for the other person to take issue with it. But if someone didn’t remove their VR headset when getting into a conversation with me IRL… I can’t see that ever becoming commonly accepted. It’s completely different from phones because you wouldn’t even know if and when they are glancing at messages or other content (or even filming you), so there’s just way more social norms for the tech to contend with. With a headset, there is a 100% clear distinction between when you’re using it vs when you’re not, and a distinct act putting it on and taking it off, whereas with phones you can flick a glance at it. Direct-to-brain AR will be another matter though. Then we will be forced to accept that anyone we are talking to may be secretly engaged with other stuff at the same time.

I don't see phone as being equivalent to a VR headset. Phone is just a few sq. inches of distraction whereas the VR stuff is a 360 degree false world full of delusion.

BulgarianIdiot 3y ago

In your mind it's not that different. Consider the importance of media on shaping your thoughts, beliefs, memories, emotions. Whether delivered through a cinema screen or a tiny phone doesn't matter. VR/AR has wow factor, but you quickly get used to it, and then your concerns are mostly pragmatic: the headset is huge, the battery life short and so on. Although AR at least has pass through, which is a big benefit, as it doesn't completely hide your real surroundings.

Jochim 3y ago
I'm a fan of VR/AR but found Apple's reveal video to be profoundly sad. There's a sense of isolation running through the whole thing. The immediate connection many people made was to Black Mirror. The father wearing the headset and recording his children play around him really hit that note. From the children's perspective, instead of their father's face they see a pair of black goggles and rather than their father's eyes they see a digital facsimile.
- ChuckNorris89 3y ago
  >The father wearing the headset and recording his children play around him really hit that note. "Hold still son so I can record this moment, I've only got 10 minutes out of the 2h of battery left on this headset" lol The mental illnesses kids will have growing up with tech addicted parents are gonna be epic. Therapists are gonna be printing money.
  - kanbara 3y ago
    people already film their kids on their phone, take live photos of their dogs, and tiktok/insta themselves in a cool place. having the ability to share parts of our lives remotely and also remember them is profound. i often look back at photos of the past few years, and remark at memories i've forgotten, places i've been, and i share those things with others as well. sure no one wants 10 people in a room interacting thru their apple vision pro, but i really don't think it's fundamentally different. and if i could have a 3d video of my deceased family that looks more real than a photo, i'd love that. look at the parts of the tech that connect us more; there will always be negative things, loners, tech addicts, etc. and as for the mental illness quip, i honestly don't have an answer because it's so outlandish we can't even begin to quantify it
    - ChuckNorris89 3y ago
      You must be fun at parties
- chasd00 3y ago
  > The father wearing the headset and recording his children play around him really hit that note Yeah that was a mistake. It should have been a worker recording how to assemble something to make a training vid. The family recording thing probably turned off a lot of people.
  - alexvoda 3y ago
    Precisely. Some mechanical training or live assistance is entirely plausible. I experienced a similar thing with HoloLens and other than the limited FOV it was really convincing as a tool. Apple unironically going for the dystopia angle is a weird flex.
- satyrnein 3y ago
  I mostly agree, but on the other hand: when I was a kid in the 80s, my dad spent my birthday parties walking around with a shoulder mounted video camera. It was lame, but not quite dystopian.

piva00 3y ago

And people get completely sucked into those few sq. inches of screen, tuning off from the real world. In my life it got to a point with some friends where I introduced the idea of everyone taking their phones out and putting them face down on a stack on the table, if you really need to check your phone for something important one has to voice out "I need to check my phone", taking a break from hanging out to check it. It annoys me to no end when in the middle of a conversation someone takes their phone out just to check a message, or Instagram, or any kind of trivial notification, and end up lost in it for a few minutes, it's been really great to make them more aware of the behaviour as it completely tunes me off from a conversation seeing someone you're trying to communicate with staring intensely into their screens. At least in VR I know that they aren't present, easier to adjust, with phones it just annoys me absolutely.

eloisant 3y ago
This is just good manners, I don't check my phone in the middle of a conversation and my friends don't do it either. I also teach my kids not to do that.
- piva00 3y ago
  I can't expect that every single person I met or I'm friends with will adhere to "just good manners", given the ubiquitous presence of those few sq. inches of screens around us there will always be instances where good manners aren't followed.
  - arcatech 3y ago
    So what’s your point again? Is the Apple Vision making things better or worse?

cal85 3y ago

It’s the world of instant information and social contact that makes phones distracting, not the screen dimensions. Actually I’d say the small screen form factor makes this problem even worse - makes it socially acceptable to be half-present with people, the worst thing. It feels like no big deal to glance at a phone while talking to someone, and feels churlish for the other person to take issue with it. But if someone didn’t remove their VR headset when getting into a conversation with me IRL… I can’t see that ever becoming commonly accepted. It’s completely different from phones because you wouldn’t even know if and when they are glancing at messages or other content (or even filming you), so there’s just way more social norms for the tech to contend with. With a headset, there is a 100% clear distinction between when you’re using it vs when you’re not, and a distinct act putting it on and taking it off, whereas with phones you can flick a glance at it. Direct-to-brain AR will be another matter though. Then we will be forced to accept that anyone we are talking to may be secretly engaged with other stuff at the same time.