4 ms·

There are over 115,000 schools in the United States. In the 23 years since Columbine there have been 380 school shootings (one is too many, of course). Any los

There are over 115,000 schools in the United States. In the 23 years since Columbine there have been 380 school shootings (one is too many, of course). Any loss of life is tragic but school shootings are a lot like plane crashes: shocking, clustered loss of life. It’s the old story about 150 people dying in a plane crash gripping national (and international) media attention for days while 117 people die in car crashes EVERY DAY and they barely make the local newspaper. Oh yeah phones are a large contributor to these too… Meanwhile, suicide is the third largest leading cause of death for people aged 15-24 (somewhere around 5,000/yr). Accidents (including cars) are by far the leading cause of death. Not to mention drugs… School shootings are terrible and any loss of life is tragic. However, the actual statistical chances of a young person being harmed or involved in a school shooting are tiny. I have a friend who is a high school principal and as the article describes, far more young people are harmed (up to and including suicide) by phones than guns. The sexting, constant and relentless bullying, distraction, overall device addiction, etc does far more damage to far more kids than guns (as wild as that might seem). Thousands of adults at a time, with far more responsibility (many of whom are parents), will surrender their phones in magnetic pouches to see Dave Chapelle (as one example). Tragedy doesn’t strike when they don’t have constant and immediate access to their phones. It’s actually not the difference between life and death. Meanwhile, asking 14 year olds (many of whom have no responsibilities other than school) to not have their phones in an environment allegedly dedicated to focus and learning for a few hours at a time receives pushback. It’s truly bizarre. Get phones AND guns out of schools.

igetspam 3y ago
School shootings are not like plane crashes, they are like plane hijackings by suicidal terrorists. (Because that's what they are.) There are now kids who have loved through two school shootings. You're downplaying this significantly. Find a way to keep guns out of the hands of domestic terrorists and I'll listen to your concerns about phones but not before.
- balderdash 3y ago
  This is comically irrational
- 2devnull 3y ago
  The parent did the math for you and you ignore it and trot out an anecdote of no relevance (someone that experienced 2 shootings). Bizarre.
  - igetspam 3y ago
    Is this the "math" you're referring to? > I have a friend who is a high school principal and as the article describes, far more young people are harmed (up to and including suicide) by phones than guns. The sexting, constant and relentless bullying, distraction, overall device addiction, etc does far more damage to far more kids than guns (as wild as that might seem). Or perhaps it's the "thousands of adults" seeing Dave Chappelle? The parent had no "math," only talking points. But here's some actual data: 46 school shootings in 2022 27 school shootings in 2023, as of May 5 There are approximately 93000 pre college public schools in this country. All but one school shooting has been at public schools. That means the likely hood of going to a school where a shooting will happen (using the 2022 numbers) is ~0.04%. Ask any parent if a "one in a 2500 chance" that their kid will be at school during a shooting makes them feel good or bad. Is that good enough math for you? Let the kids keep their phones. In the not-actually-unlikely-event that there is a school shooting, more phones is better. Make schools, which are mandatory (not like airplane rides) safer and we can talk about phones. Focusing on less important issues, backed by anecdata (my school principal friend says... blah blah blah) is a waste of energy that could be used elsewhere.
    - prepend 3y ago
      > Ask any parent if a "one in a thousand chance" that their kid will be at school during a shooting makes them feel good or bad. Of course school shootings make parents feel bad. Having phones doesn’t improve the 1:1000 odds of my child being in a school shooting. Ask parents if they’d like to have improved mental health and school performance. It’s the choice between phones not improving outcomes in a 1:1000 chance vs phones substantially harming kids at a much higher probability. Phones are a poor intervention to ameliorate school shootings.
      - igetspam 3y ago
InCityDreams 3y ago
>, far more young people are harmed (up to and including suicide) by phones than guns. ??
- the_third_wave 3y ago
  By the portal opened by those phones to unhealthy dark places, connections created through the phones to destructive influences and influencers, by the fact that phones are social pressure magnifiers. Yes, it is nearly certain that more lives have been destroyed by those than have been by weaponry.
1827163 3y ago
And mental health issues resulting from the soul-crushing school system itself. From boredom in the classroom, and from grading and testing of students. It's a prison environment that children are compelled to attend.
ryukoposting 3y ago
Couldn't have said it better myself. Perhaps kids would be better socialized, and thus wouldn't become school shooters, if they got off their phones. Just a thought.
- wkearney99 3y ago
  Just an entirely bogus thought. Neatly allowing all of the blame to rest on the shooters not the rest of the toxic social culture around them. Sure, that society didn't 'pull the trigger' but they damned well sure primed the kids toward those crimes.
- wnevets 3y ago
  > Perhaps kids would be better socialized, and thus wouldn't become school shooters, if they got off their phones. You sound just like the people who blamed Columbine on DOOM and Marilyn Manson CDs.
wnevets 3y ago
> However, the actual statistical chances of a young person being harmed or involved in a school shooting are tiny. That's what a lot people said about COVID but my family still wore masks and got the vaccine. I'm not going to send them to school in kevlar vests but I want them to have access to high precision GPS, bluetooth, hd video and a high speed data connection during a crisis.

igetspam 3y ago

School shootings are not like plane crashes, they are like plane hijackings by suicidal terrorists. (Because that's what they are.) There are now kids who have loved through two school shootings. You're downplaying this significantly. Find a way to keep guns out of the hands of domestic terrorists and I'll listen to your concerns about phones but not before.

balderdash 3y ago
This is comically irrational
2devnull 3y ago
The parent did the math for you and you ignore it and trot out an anecdote of no relevance (someone that experienced 2 shootings). Bizarre.
- igetspam 3y ago
  Is this the "math" you're referring to? > I have a friend who is a high school principal and as the article describes, far more young people are harmed (up to and including suicide) by phones than guns. The sexting, constant and relentless bullying, distraction, overall device addiction, etc does far more damage to far more kids than guns (as wild as that might seem). Or perhaps it's the "thousands of adults" seeing Dave Chappelle? The parent had no "math," only talking points. But here's some actual data: 46 school shootings in 2022 27 school shootings in 2023, as of May 5 There are approximately 93000 pre college public schools in this country. All but one school shooting has been at public schools. That means the likely hood of going to a school where a shooting will happen (using the 2022 numbers) is ~0.04%. Ask any parent if a "one in a 2500 chance" that their kid will be at school during a shooting makes them feel good or bad. Is that good enough math for you? Let the kids keep their phones. In the not-actually-unlikely-event that there is a school shooting, more phones is better. Make schools, which are mandatory (not like airplane rides) safer and we can talk about phones. Focusing on less important issues, backed by anecdata (my school principal friend says... blah blah blah) is a waste of energy that could be used elsewhere.
  - prepend 3y ago
    > Ask any parent if a "one in a thousand chance" that their kid will be at school during a shooting makes them feel good or bad. Of course school shootings make parents feel bad. Having phones doesn’t improve the 1:1000 odds of my child being in a school shooting. Ask parents if they’d like to have improved mental health and school performance. It’s the choice between phones not improving outcomes in a 1:1000 chance vs phones substantially harming kids at a much higher probability. Phones are a poor intervention to ameliorate school shootings.
    - igetspam 3y ago

InCityDreams 3y ago

>, far more young people are harmed (up to and including suicide) by phones than guns. ??

the_third_wave 3y ago
By the portal opened by those phones to unhealthy dark places, connections created through the phones to destructive influences and influencers, by the fact that phones are social pressure magnifiers. Yes, it is nearly certain that more lives have been destroyed by those than have been by weaponry.

1827163 3y ago

And mental health issues resulting from the soul-crushing school system itself. From boredom in the classroom, and from grading and testing of students. It's a prison environment that children are compelled to attend.

ryukoposting 3y ago

Couldn't have said it better myself. Perhaps kids would be better socialized, and thus wouldn't become school shooters, if they got off their phones. Just a thought.

wkearney99 3y ago
Just an entirely bogus thought. Neatly allowing all of the blame to rest on the shooters not the rest of the toxic social culture around them. Sure, that society didn't 'pull the trigger' but they damned well sure primed the kids toward those crimes.
wnevets 3y ago
> Perhaps kids would be better socialized, and thus wouldn't become school shooters, if they got off their phones. You sound just like the people who blamed Columbine on DOOM and Marilyn Manson CDs.

wnevets 3y ago

> However, the actual statistical chances of a young person being harmed or involved in a school shooting are tiny. That's what a lot people said about COVID but my family still wore masks and got the vaccine. I'm not going to send them to school in kevlar vests but I want them to have access to high precision GPS, bluetooth, hd video and a high speed data connection during a crisis.