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I agree that so far that is where we've been, but imagine a Sim City or Civilization game on the Vision Pro. THAT would be a ton of fun. I'm sure Sid Meier co

by MR4D 3y ago

I agree that so far that is where we've been, but imagine a Sim City or Civilization game on the Vision Pro. THAT would be a ton of fun. I'm sure Sid Meier could make something interesting on it. Frankly, I would love it if Apple would throw money at him to make one of his games on it.

pmontra 3y ago
One problem to solve is that probably we don't want people to stand for hours and having to walk through the city or the world. They might not have the space at home to do it. They could sit on an office chair and rotate themselves 360°. If they spend 3k on the visor they can spend $100 on a chair. However you don't even have to do that kind of exercise on a screen.
- esskay 3y ago
  Yes this is where lack of controllers is going to be an issue. I guess you could use a PS/Xbox controller but then you may as well be playing on a pc. I get why they didn't want to go the controller route, but they'll surely be very aware that it greatly limits what can be done with games.
  - MR4D 3y ago
    They never said you can’t use a controller. Remember, the iPad doesn’t come with a controller, but you can use a Pencil with it if you want. Same thing will likely happen with the Vision products.
    - cubefox 3y ago
      The point is that most games would probably need a special VR controller (not a normal one!), unless they can be played point&click style. But Apple won't include them, so the respective games won't be made in the first place. There aren't even smartphone games which require external controllers, despite the install base of smartphones being orders of magnitude higher than what the sales numbers for the Vision Pro headset will be. Moreover, making elaborate games like civilization wouldn't be economically feasible even if they could be appropriately controlled by default. The price for the headset is so high that not many people will buy it. Then elaborate games can't sell enough copies in order to be profitable. For example, it seems unlikely that even a success like Half Life Alyx made its development cost back. The hardware install base is too small.
      - MR4D 3y ago
        An Xbox controller would probably work fine. I already have multiple connected to things like PC's, Macs, and even an AppleTV in my house. I think Apple is playing the long game here. Moore's law and manufacturing improvements will cause the price to go down over time. Remember, the first Macintosh cost $3,000 in 1984. Today most Macs cost less than 2/3 of that price before adjusting for inflation.
        cubefox 3y ago
        So let's wait again 40 years. 2024 to 2064. But Moore's law will not last that long. The prices per transistor aren't exponentially decreasing anymore.
- MR4D 3y ago
  A screen would be nowhere near as immersive. My point was that it would be like walking around Madurodam while playing a game. And standing would be optional. Apple showed most people sitting down, so I’m presuming you could do that.
  - pmontra 3y ago
    You can walk up to the walls of the room you are playing in (or bed, or chairs or flower pots or a ball you left on the floor, ouch) but I guess that if this sticks somebody will build a 360° walking pad specifically for games. Meanwhile they can artificially limit how far a player can walk in a straight line. Mazes, small vehicles, etc
    - MR4D 3y ago
      The already have one [0]. Pretty neat once you get used to it. But you should be able to do VR while sitting down and "walk" using gestures or a controller. [0] - https://www.kat-vr.com/ https://www.kat-vr.com/
mrguyorama 3y ago
>imagine a Sim City or Civilization game on the Vision Pro. THAT would be a ton of fun. Why? No, seriously, why? People say this as if it is a given, but how would VR improve a game serious that is built around strategy as it's main selling point. How does VR improve Civ as a game? In fact, there are very few genres and types of games that the immersion VR brings is worth the limitations: Weird controls, isolation, headaches, wearing a mask, expense, physical exertion etc. I'm so tired of people who don't seem to know anything about either video gaming or VR gaming parroting this empty hype of how VR magically makes all games better. VR is a peripheral, not an advancement in rendering technology.
- MR4D 3y ago
  The same way a huge TV makes a college football game more fun. It's a city. I live in a real city. SimCity is this flat set of graphics on a screen. I'd much rather be able to view my city that I created and see what it looks like on a human level. I get your point, and many things would not be good. But for me at least, SimCity would be. So would Call of Duty (and I know that because I've played 1st person shooters in VR before on multiple occasions). But that's just me.

by MR4D 3y ago

pmontra 3y ago

One problem to solve is that probably we don't want people to stand for hours and having to walk through the city or the world. They might not have the space at home to do it. They could sit on an office chair and rotate themselves 360°. If they spend 3k on the visor they can spend $100 on a chair. However you don't even have to do that kind of exercise on a screen.

esskay 3y ago
Yes this is where lack of controllers is going to be an issue. I guess you could use a PS/Xbox controller but then you may as well be playing on a pc. I get why they didn't want to go the controller route, but they'll surely be very aware that it greatly limits what can be done with games.
- MR4D 3y ago
  They never said you can’t use a controller. Remember, the iPad doesn’t come with a controller, but you can use a Pencil with it if you want. Same thing will likely happen with the Vision products.
  - cubefox 3y ago
    The point is that most games would probably need a special VR controller (not a normal one!), unless they can be played point&click style. But Apple won't include them, so the respective games won't be made in the first place. There aren't even smartphone games which require external controllers, despite the install base of smartphones being orders of magnitude higher than what the sales numbers for the Vision Pro headset will be. Moreover, making elaborate games like civilization wouldn't be economically feasible even if they could be appropriately controlled by default. The price for the headset is so high that not many people will buy it. Then elaborate games can't sell enough copies in order to be profitable. For example, it seems unlikely that even a success like Half Life Alyx made its development cost back. The hardware install base is too small.
    - MR4D 3y ago
      An Xbox controller would probably work fine. I already have multiple connected to things like PC's, Macs, and even an AppleTV in my house. I think Apple is playing the long game here. Moore's law and manufacturing improvements will cause the price to go down over time. Remember, the first Macintosh cost $3,000 in 1984. Today most Macs cost less than 2/3 of that price before adjusting for inflation.
      - cubefox 3y ago
        So let's wait again 40 years. 2024 to 2064. But Moore's law will not last that long. The prices per transistor aren't exponentially decreasing anymore.
MR4D 3y ago
A screen would be nowhere near as immersive. My point was that it would be like walking around Madurodam while playing a game. And standing would be optional. Apple showed most people sitting down, so I’m presuming you could do that.
- pmontra 3y ago
  You can walk up to the walls of the room you are playing in (or bed, or chairs or flower pots or a ball you left on the floor, ouch) but I guess that if this sticks somebody will build a 360° walking pad specifically for games. Meanwhile they can artificially limit how far a player can walk in a straight line. Mazes, small vehicles, etc
  - MR4D 3y ago
    The already have one [0]. Pretty neat once you get used to it. But you should be able to do VR while sitting down and "walk" using gestures or a controller. [0] - https://www.kat-vr.com/ https://www.kat-vr.com/

mrguyorama 3y ago

>imagine a Sim City or Civilization game on the Vision Pro. THAT would be a ton of fun. Why? No, seriously, why? People say this as if it is a given, but how would VR improve a game serious that is built around strategy as it's main selling point. How does VR improve Civ as a game? In fact, there are very few genres and types of games that the immersion VR brings is worth the limitations: Weird controls, isolation, headaches, wearing a mask, expense, physical exertion etc. I'm so tired of people who don't seem to know anything about either video gaming or VR gaming parroting this empty hype of how VR magically makes all games better. VR is a peripheral, not an advancement in rendering technology.

MR4D 3y ago
The same way a huge TV makes a college football game more fun. It's a city. I live in a real city. SimCity is this flat set of graphics on a screen. I'd much rather be able to view my city that I created and see what it looks like on a human level. I get your point, and many things would not be good. But for me at least, SimCity would be. So would Call of Duty (and I know that because I've played 1st person shooters in VR before on multiple occasions). But that's just me.