4 ms·

They are immersive, 100%. But also nauseating and forehead heating.

cubefox 3y ago
A reviewer on YouTube said the Apple Vision is a bit heavy because they used a metal frame for some reason. (No comment about foreheads)
- acdha 3y ago
  You can safely treat “reviewer on YouTube” as “stranger at a bar” in terms of accuracy. They get paid to get clicks, not to deliver accurate or expert advice, and that heavily favors “why don’t they just…?” comments glossing over challenging engineering decisions.
  - crummy 3y ago
    I think it was MKBHD who seems to know his stuff
    - cubefox 3y ago
      Yeah. Also, the "why don't they just" (use plastic/carbon) came from me, not him. Apple is long known for using metal in places where it unnecessarily increases weight, because it makes a product feel more premium.
      - manuelabeledo 3y ago
        He did mention that competitors use plastic precisely because it is lightweight.
    - acdha 3y ago
      How many industrial design projects has he done, though? He doesn’t have any particular expertise in the area so while it’s fair to ask why they picked the trade-offs they did, it’s pretty far-fetched to think one of the best industrial design teams in the world forgot about a primary success factor, especially given how much other effort they made to hit weight targets. Absent someone who’s actually worked in the field saying it’s unnecessary, I’d give the benefit of the doubt and assume that they used aluminum instead of plastic for a good reason.
      - sumedh 3y ago
        > one of the best industrial design teams in the world forgot about a primary success factor, Is this the same team who came up with a phone that bends in the pocket?
        grncdr 3y ago
        And a wireless mouse that can't be used with the charge cable plugged in...
      - cubefox 3y ago
        There are other headsets without metal frame, so we pretty much know this is not necessary. And we also know with certainty that metal absolutely isn't necessary for laptop cases, but Apple still uses metal. The explanation is easy: aesthetics, feel, "haptics".
        ProfessorLayton 3y ago
        There are no comparable plastic laptops with similar performance, portability/thiness, battery life, and quietness — metal is rigid, and an excellent heat conductor that contributes to those goals.
        cubefox 3y ago
        There were many such laptops when they were still on Intel.
        ProfessorLayton 3y ago
        Yes, and Apple also sold plastic laptops when they were still on Intel. Apple has repeatedly attempted to sell products with a cheaper chassis (iPhone 5C, Plastic Unibody Macbook) yet their customers preferred metal enclosures.
        cubefox 3y ago
vlovich123 3y ago
Have you tried a Quest? I found the SW on that fixed all neaseau I experienced on earlier headsets and I think the Quest 2 was even better but I don’t recall at this point.
- loeg 3y ago
  I had plenty of nausea with the Quest 2.
  - esskay 3y ago
    Same experience here. For stationary position games I found it fine, but anything with any kind of walking handled by the controllers it felt awful. Interestingly I tried out F1 2022 in PCVR mode with it and was surprised to find that didn't make me feel ill. A lot of it comes down to the refresh rate and quality of tracking as its the lag that causes a lot of the nausea.
    - mrguyorama 3y ago
      I think that has more to do with mental framing. Your brain is used to being "in a car" and having weird motion. You also usually have the inside of the car being stationary in your field of vision, meaning your brain can look at that and feel fine that you aren't moving.
- grogenaut 3y ago
  It's very varied by person. My friend used a index on my 4090 dedicated (All other monitors to the 2080ti). Running at full frames on google earth. He puked his guts out 20 minutes later and took about 40 total minutes to recover. I was watching the stats the whole time. He just suddenly went urp right in the middle of mt rainier. I had just showed him WA state and no ill effects, but I didn't have issues on a pre-release vive prototype or release occulus OG while doing barrel rolls and back flips or movement vluprs.
  - vlovich123 3y ago
grogenaut 3y ago
thta's not going to get better with working in one. it'll still be forehead heating, nauseating, distracting.

A reviewer on YouTube said the Apple Vision is a bit heavy because they used a metal frame for some reason. (No comment about foreheads)

acdha 3y ago
You can safely treat “reviewer on YouTube” as “stranger at a bar” in terms of accuracy. They get paid to get clicks, not to deliver accurate or expert advice, and that heavily favors “why don’t they just…?” comments glossing over challenging engineering decisions.
- crummy 3y ago
  I think it was MKBHD who seems to know his stuff
  - cubefox 3y ago
    Yeah. Also, the "why don't they just" (use plastic/carbon) came from me, not him. Apple is long known for using metal in places where it unnecessarily increases weight, because it makes a product feel more premium.
    - manuelabeledo 3y ago
      He did mention that competitors use plastic precisely because it is lightweight.
  - acdha 3y ago
    How many industrial design projects has he done, though? He doesn’t have any particular expertise in the area so while it’s fair to ask why they picked the trade-offs they did, it’s pretty far-fetched to think one of the best industrial design teams in the world forgot about a primary success factor, especially given how much other effort they made to hit weight targets. Absent someone who’s actually worked in the field saying it’s unnecessary, I’d give the benefit of the doubt and assume that they used aluminum instead of plastic for a good reason.
    - sumedh 3y ago
      > one of the best industrial design teams in the world forgot about a primary success factor, Is this the same team who came up with a phone that bends in the pocket?
      - grncdr 3y ago
        And a wireless mouse that can't be used with the charge cable plugged in...
    - cubefox 3y ago
      There are other headsets without metal frame, so we pretty much know this is not necessary. And we also know with certainty that metal absolutely isn't necessary for laptop cases, but Apple still uses metal. The explanation is easy: aesthetics, feel, "haptics".
      - ProfessorLayton 3y ago
        There are no comparable plastic laptops with similar performance, portability/thiness, battery life, and quietness — metal is rigid, and an excellent heat conductor that contributes to those goals.
        cubefox 3y ago
        There were many such laptops when they were still on Intel.
        ProfessorLayton 3y ago
        Yes, and Apple also sold plastic laptops when they were still on Intel. Apple has repeatedly attempted to sell products with a cheaper chassis (iPhone 5C, Plastic Unibody Macbook) yet their customers preferred metal enclosures.
        cubefox 3y ago

vlovich123 3y ago

Have you tried a Quest? I found the SW on that fixed all neaseau I experienced on earlier headsets and I think the Quest 2 was even better but I don’t recall at this point.

loeg 3y ago
I had plenty of nausea with the Quest 2.
- esskay 3y ago
  Same experience here. For stationary position games I found it fine, but anything with any kind of walking handled by the controllers it felt awful. Interestingly I tried out F1 2022 in PCVR mode with it and was surprised to find that didn't make me feel ill. A lot of it comes down to the refresh rate and quality of tracking as its the lag that causes a lot of the nausea.
  - mrguyorama 3y ago
    I think that has more to do with mental framing. Your brain is used to being "in a car" and having weird motion. You also usually have the inside of the car being stationary in your field of vision, meaning your brain can look at that and feel fine that you aren't moving.
grogenaut 3y ago
It's very varied by person. My friend used a index on my 4090 dedicated (All other monitors to the 2080ti). Running at full frames on google earth. He puked his guts out 20 minutes later and took about 40 total minutes to recover. I was watching the stats the whole time. He just suddenly went urp right in the middle of mt rainier. I had just showed him WA state and no ill effects, but I didn't have issues on a pre-release vive prototype or release occulus OG while doing barrel rolls and back flips or movement vluprs.
- vlovich123 3y ago

grogenaut 3y ago

thta's not going to get better with working in one. it'll still be forehead heating, nauseating, distracting.