6 ms·

This is scary. While I find it on-topic, I feel compelled to downvote your comment so that less people see the link. Sorry!

lilboiluvr69 3y ago
I guess as someone who lived in a long time in a clothing optional community, the idea that people being naked is a bad thing (we are all naked under our clothes) really confuses me.
- ethanbond 3y ago
  What about the idea that random people on the internet can produce believable images of your naked body and share it with people who you never consented to share it with? Come on, it’s not that difficult.
  - sharemywin 3y ago
    but it's not your body.
  - lilboiluvr69 3y ago
    But that's my point. Why would I care if somebody saw me naked?
    - bcrl 3y ago
      As Lily Allen says in The Fear: And I'll take my clothes off and it will be shameless 'Cause everyone knows that's how you get famous We are such an odd society with so very many double standards.
    - DangitBobby 3y ago
      It's not about you.
      - lilboiluvr69 3y ago
        I suppose not. But if I was in a very Muslim centric country and people were complaining that this software allows pictures of women without a hijab, my first thought would be the same: why is that such a bad thing? I mean the article itself says people are willing to pay extortion money than risk even fictional depictions of their naked bodies. Maybe its time we reassess our culture...
        DangitBobby 3y ago
        The problem is they don't consent to the depiction. Naked or no, it's not nice to depict people in ways they don't like, and it's _really_ not nice to do it ways they _strongly_ object to. You can argue that they shouldn't mind it and maybe that makes sense but that's not the world we live in.
        lilboiluvr69 3y ago
        I'm not arguing that extorting people or making them feel violated is right. I'm arguing that our social norms are what allow this sort of exploitation to happen and we should examine our collective responsibility for it.
        ethanbond 3y ago
        [dead]
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
    - _urvc 3y ago
      Every society has different norms. The society I live in objectifies nude people, especially women and sex workers, as loose and not respectable. So, for us it is humilating and degrading (see how victims are talked about after sex tape scandals). It is worse when it shows you intimate with someone else. I've been looked at as an object of desire before instead of a human and it felt terrifying. And I was wearing clothes. All in all, nudity is not the problem but what happens after.
      - seer 3y ago
        Isn’t the ubiquitousness of services like this an actual “cure”? If its easy to make those deep fake nudes and everybody has one, then it will not be as scary and shameful, And we can finally get on with our lives with one less thing to stress about? God knows we have enough other things to occupy us anyway.
        _urvc 3y ago
        To a certain degree it is true. More and more people know how photoshopped influencer posts are. Sadly, that is not the majority and even if they knew, they would not care. Those who want to oppress will shame others to exercise power, which is why the mindset of guilty until proven innocent is still prevalent. The cure to it is to reduce the power imbalance in society. How is difficult as violence has many forms and hidden behind a friendly facade (e.g. toxic positivy, forced diversity). So, from my perspective nudity itself is not the problem. As an example where nudity is accepted are nudity beaches in Germany.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
    - LeonB 3y ago
      That’s irrelevant. You’re being asked to accept that other people care if somebody sees them naked.
    - matt-attack 3y ago
      It’s worse than that: why should you care if someone imagined you naked? That’s all these things are, just imaginations.
      - ethanbond 3y ago
        I suspect you’d take a different tack if there were synthetic sexualized “photos” of your loved ones going around the internet. Like by this logic synthesized nudity of real children shouldn’t be a problem, right?
        matt-attack 3y ago
        Well of course it shouldn't. One should be able to draw whatever they wish. I'm really not comfortable saying there is a particular thing that someone just can't draw with a pencil. Furthermore, I'd gladly donate bath time photos of myself as a prepubescent child if it means that some unlucky soul who has the misfortune of being born a pedophile can enjoy something he or she might consider sexually gratifying. Something that will keep him or her content instead of seeking non-consenting children IRL. We should all be feeding people like this synthesized (or donated) sexual material. The idea of withholding it for some messed up reason only serves to put innocent children at risk.
  - Szpadel 3y ago
    we have Photoshop for long time already, and celebrities that didn't pose nude are photoshopped constantly most of the time all you need is replacement model with similar enough body and all you have to do is face swap. I think that all we need now is something in reverse, generating clothed photos from nude, so in case someone really leaked your nudes you could show them that this is fake from other clothed photo.
  - prepend 3y ago
    > you never consented to share it with In what way would consent be required? If someone sits in a public park and paints a nude picture with my face on it, do I need to consent? I probably don’t even know it exists. I expect the harm would be greater if a bunch of perverts/artistic souls sought me out and asked consent for things that don’t require my consent. Or should we require consent before someone dreams of us? Or imagines us? I’m curious how frequently this happens, but I expect quite a bit. In high school locker rooms, I remember kids talking about pretty much every other student nude, etc etc. Should that require consent? What’s the line? When someone draws it? Or generates it? Or when they distribute it? I think the legal limit now is based on defamation so the harm is when the fake is presented as real.
    - ethanbond 3y ago
      I am not proposing that anyone "need" consent for any of this. I'm saying that engaging in it without consent just makes you an asshole, as is true with several of the examples you just provided. Yep, painting a pornographic nude of someone you saw in the park is creepy, weird, disrespectful, and yes you should be called a weird, disrespectful creep for doing it. Should you go to jail? No. Is there a (blurry, hard to define) line between disrespectful nude depictions and respectful ones? Yep. This service, for example, is clearly geared toward equipping weird, disrespectful creeps.
      - prepend 3y ago
        [dead]
  - hulitu 3y ago
    That's nothing. Wait until Getty Images finds about them. /s
asfarley 3y ago
Upvoted, simulation is outside of morality
houseinthesky 3y ago
Alternative perspective - believable AI-generated nudes completely eliminate the risk of "revenge porn" or embarrassment from leaked photos. If someone can say "Hey Siri, generate a picture of Alice and Bob fornicating" and get a realistic image, then neither Alice nor Bob ever need to worry about their private photos being hacked, leaked, shared, etc. They can just laugh and say the image is a fake. It's a huge win for everyone in the long term, the perfect counter to privacy invasion - simply bury any real private information in a mountain of fakes. Oh you think got my medical record, my tax return, my nudes, my private texts, my performance reviews? Which ones? Here's 500 equally plausible alternative versions of all of those.
- karendaves 3y ago
  [flagged]
- karendaves 3y ago
  [flagged]

lilboiluvr69 3y ago

I guess as someone who lived in a long time in a clothing optional community, the idea that people being naked is a bad thing (we are all naked under our clothes) really confuses me.

ethanbond 3y ago
What about the idea that random people on the internet can produce believable images of your naked body and share it with people who you never consented to share it with? Come on, it’s not that difficult.
- sharemywin 3y ago
  but it's not your body.
- lilboiluvr69 3y ago
  But that's my point. Why would I care if somebody saw me naked?
  - bcrl 3y ago
    As Lily Allen says in The Fear: And I'll take my clothes off and it will be shameless 'Cause everyone knows that's how you get famous We are such an odd society with so very many double standards.
  - DangitBobby 3y ago
    It's not about you.
    - lilboiluvr69 3y ago
      I suppose not. But if I was in a very Muslim centric country and people were complaining that this software allows pictures of women without a hijab, my first thought would be the same: why is that such a bad thing? I mean the article itself says people are willing to pay extortion money than risk even fictional depictions of their naked bodies. Maybe its time we reassess our culture...
      - DangitBobby 3y ago
        The problem is they don't consent to the depiction. Naked or no, it's not nice to depict people in ways they don't like, and it's _really_ not nice to do it ways they _strongly_ object to. You can argue that they shouldn't mind it and maybe that makes sense but that's not the world we live in.
        lilboiluvr69 3y ago
        I'm not arguing that extorting people or making them feel violated is right. I'm arguing that our social norms are what allow this sort of exploitation to happen and we should examine our collective responsibility for it.
        ethanbond 3y ago
        [dead]
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
  - _urvc 3y ago
    Every society has different norms. The society I live in objectifies nude people, especially women and sex workers, as loose and not respectable. So, for us it is humilating and degrading (see how victims are talked about after sex tape scandals). It is worse when it shows you intimate with someone else. I've been looked at as an object of desire before instead of a human and it felt terrifying. And I was wearing clothes. All in all, nudity is not the problem but what happens after.
    - seer 3y ago
      Isn’t the ubiquitousness of services like this an actual “cure”? If its easy to make those deep fake nudes and everybody has one, then it will not be as scary and shameful, And we can finally get on with our lives with one less thing to stress about? God knows we have enough other things to occupy us anyway.
      - _urvc 3y ago
        To a certain degree it is true. More and more people know how photoshopped influencer posts are. Sadly, that is not the majority and even if they knew, they would not care. Those who want to oppress will shame others to exercise power, which is why the mindset of guilty until proven innocent is still prevalent. The cure to it is to reduce the power imbalance in society. How is difficult as violence has many forms and hidden behind a friendly facade (e.g. toxic positivy, forced diversity). So, from my perspective nudity itself is not the problem. As an example where nudity is accepted are nudity beaches in Germany.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
  - LeonB 3y ago
    That’s irrelevant. You’re being asked to accept that other people care if somebody sees them naked.
  - matt-attack 3y ago
    It’s worse than that: why should you care if someone imagined you naked? That’s all these things are, just imaginations.
    - ethanbond 3y ago
      I suspect you’d take a different tack if there were synthetic sexualized “photos” of your loved ones going around the internet. Like by this logic synthesized nudity of real children shouldn’t be a problem, right?
      - matt-attack 3y ago
        Well of course it shouldn't. One should be able to draw whatever they wish. I'm really not comfortable saying there is a particular thing that someone just can't draw with a pencil. Furthermore, I'd gladly donate bath time photos of myself as a prepubescent child if it means that some unlucky soul who has the misfortune of being born a pedophile can enjoy something he or she might consider sexually gratifying. Something that will keep him or her content instead of seeking non-consenting children IRL. We should all be feeding people like this synthesized (or donated) sexual material. The idea of withholding it for some messed up reason only serves to put innocent children at risk.
- Szpadel 3y ago
  we have Photoshop for long time already, and celebrities that didn't pose nude are photoshopped constantly most of the time all you need is replacement model with similar enough body and all you have to do is face swap. I think that all we need now is something in reverse, generating clothed photos from nude, so in case someone really leaked your nudes you could show them that this is fake from other clothed photo.
- prepend 3y ago
  > you never consented to share it with In what way would consent be required? If someone sits in a public park and paints a nude picture with my face on it, do I need to consent? I probably don’t even know it exists. I expect the harm would be greater if a bunch of perverts/artistic souls sought me out and asked consent for things that don’t require my consent. Or should we require consent before someone dreams of us? Or imagines us? I’m curious how frequently this happens, but I expect quite a bit. In high school locker rooms, I remember kids talking about pretty much every other student nude, etc etc. Should that require consent? What’s the line? When someone draws it? Or generates it? Or when they distribute it? I think the legal limit now is based on defamation so the harm is when the fake is presented as real.
  - ethanbond 3y ago
    I am not proposing that anyone "need" consent for any of this. I'm saying that engaging in it without consent just makes you an asshole, as is true with several of the examples you just provided. Yep, painting a pornographic nude of someone you saw in the park is creepy, weird, disrespectful, and yes you should be called a weird, disrespectful creep for doing it. Should you go to jail? No. Is there a (blurry, hard to define) line between disrespectful nude depictions and respectful ones? Yep. This service, for example, is clearly geared toward equipping weird, disrespectful creeps.
    - prepend 3y ago
      [dead]
- hulitu 3y ago
  That's nothing. Wait until Getty Images finds about them. /s

asfarley 3y ago

Upvoted, simulation is outside of morality

houseinthesky 3y ago

Alternative perspective - believable AI-generated nudes completely eliminate the risk of "revenge porn" or embarrassment from leaked photos. If someone can say "Hey Siri, generate a picture of Alice and Bob fornicating" and get a realistic image, then neither Alice nor Bob ever need to worry about their private photos being hacked, leaked, shared, etc. They can just laugh and say the image is a fake. It's a huge win for everyone in the long term, the perfect counter to privacy invasion - simply bury any real private information in a mountain of fakes. Oh you think got my medical record, my tax return, my nudes, my private texts, my performance reviews? Which ones? Here's 500 equally plausible alternative versions of all of those.

karendaves 3y ago
[flagged]
karendaves 3y ago
[flagged]