7 ms·

> US is the only one winning Civilization Earth. Depends what you mean by winning. Other countries have different priorities, for instance the health and welfa

> US is the only one winning Civilization Earth. Depends what you mean by winning. Other countries have different priorities, for instance the health and welfare of the population over individual wealth. That doesn't make one right or wrong, but it really this reflects on your priorities more than anything else. And that's ok! I'm just saying it's subjective, not objective, and there's no reason to believe that some aliens would share your personal beliefs in re: superiority and therefore prioritize observations there.

Dalewyn 3y ago
The US is winning (or has won and keeps on winning) the Conquer Victory, the Diplomacy Victory, and the Culture Victory. I think that's the main means of winning Civilization? Been years since I played one.
- arcticbull 3y ago
  Last time I got nuked by Ghandi so it's hard to say.
- cperciva 3y ago
  Is it that shocking that a computer game made in the USA has notions of "winning" which align with those which are dominant in American culture?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - satvikpendem 3y ago
    What other win conditions would you add? The US is not the only country that conquers and exports culture, civilizations have been doing that since the first hunter gatherer planted some cereals on the banks of their closest river.
    - cperciva 3y ago
      Some members of the Chinese government take the view that anyone of Chinese ancestry is fundamentally Chinese, regardless of where they live or to whom they pledge allegiance; they would presumably consider "our descendants are X% of the world population" to be as much of a victory condition as "we control X% of the world's surface area". Some members of the Russian government take the view that anyone who can speak Russian is fundamentally Russian; they would presumably consider "X% of the world population speaks Russian" to be a victory condition. Many religious groups consider "X% of the world shares our beliefs" to be a victory condition, of course. I don't share any of these positions, but of course I come from a Western Liberal background.
      - satvikpendem 3y ago
        The first two fit into the Culture Victory, the religion one fits into, well, the Religion Victory. The 6 types in the Civilization games are Science, Culture, Domination, Religion, Score, and Diplomacy. I don't see what else could be added.
  - throwaway4aday 3y ago
    I can never understand the desire to pretend that human nature isn't the same around the world. I think it's the same instinct that causes people to pine for the good old days.
    - tstrimple 3y ago
      Right. Like everyone has the same instincts as the Japanese to clean up their spaces after their are used. It’s why our stadiums in the US are so clean and well maintained.
      - throwaway4aday 3y ago
        That's not an instinct, it's a cultural norm strictly enforced by societal pressure. You also seem to have forgotten that the Japanese made one of the biggest plays for military dominance in the modern era. They followed that up with a really good attempt at economic dominance.
- stavros 3y ago
  I like how you're using a game that obviously reflects the values of the culture that created it to make the point that that culture is better. If Civilization were made in Denmark, you'd have Population Happiness Victory and that's about it.
  - rozab 3y ago
    Paradox Games are from Sweden.
    - stavros 3y ago
      Hmm, how is that relevant?
  - Dalewyn 3y ago
    I wasn't the guy to first use the term "Civilization Earth"[1] in this thread, though. Thread framed the conversation around Civilization, I followed suit. If you have a problem, take it up with that guy. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36219608 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36219608
- accoil 3y ago
  Magnasanti scores very well in SimCity. I wouldn't rank it very high in cities to live...
- SanderNL 3y ago
  Diplomacy Victory? I’m not too sure.. Your friends are just rich, but not numerous. Most of the world hates us in various ways. Culture victory? You did come up with the book of Mormon, which I guess is some kind of achievement. Conquer Victory, now this eclipses everything. The size of US army apparatus is astounding. No doubt about that.
whiddershins 3y ago
Show me some evidence for how other countries have produced greater wealth for “the group” than the “selfish US.”
- themoonisachees 3y ago
  Wealth inequality in the US today is worse than France right before the revolution. The US is a great country to go to if you're already rich.
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
    Three years ago I came to Florida without a nickel in my pocket. Now I've got a nickel in my pocket.
  - systemvoltage 3y ago
    Inequality is a feature, not a bug as long as the standards for everyone improves. The problem is that the lowest has not seen improvement in certain areas. Inequality is a term so alluring to mid-IQ activists. I'll take today's inequality vs. poverty of 100 years ago. The world has improved, period. Similarly, I'll take a nation full of extreme inequality if their average standards of living are better than say, Honduras.
    - arcticbull 3y ago
      I like to say that inequality is only a feature if it's coupled with social mobility and a high and rising standard of living for the lower class.
      - systemvoltage 3y ago
        Agreed. Another way to also look at this is that if 95% of the people's median (not average) shifts upwards, I'll accept the trade offs. That's improvement for vast majority of the people.
        3y ago
wyager 3y ago
Aliens would probably not care that french people have more vacation days.
- arcticbull 3y ago
  Well if we’re making silly reductive arguments I’m not sure they’d care how many zeroes are in Warren Buffets brokerage account. But you know EADS/Airbus headquarters is in Toulouse if that’s more your speed. There’s also Alstom and SNCF off hand. TotalEnergies. Hermes. Dior. Sanofi. Schneider Electric. Air Liquide. Essilor. You didn’t think they were agrarians did you? They’re the second biggest economy in Europe!
  - systemvoltage 3y ago
    Definitely. There are some cool badass things in EU. There is also the French military industrial complex, a mini version of US. That said, I was shocked to learn about average software engineering salaries in Europe. Why can't Europe build amazing high margin software businesses or any hyper growth companies? And pay their engineers like kings? That'd be cool and give a strong reality check for California. For now, I'll honestly take 2.5x salary in US over pretty much any other place. And I love guns (own several).
    - arcticbull 3y ago
      > Why can't Europe build amazing high margin software businesses or any hyper growth companies? It's a good question, my guess is network effects. The people who would want to do this want to be near other people who would want to do this - and the biggest extant pool is in California. > For now, I'll honestly take 2.5x salary in US over pretty much any other place. Yeah, that's basically my situation too. Honestly probably closer to 4-5X annually what I'd make back home. Nominally, not adjusted for PPP of course. > And I love guns (own several). Haha, we don't have to agree on this one - although I will say they are super fun to shoot.
      - systemvoltage 3y ago
sacrosancty 3y ago
[dead]

Dalewyn 3y ago

The US is winning (or has won and keeps on winning) the Conquer Victory, the Diplomacy Victory, and the Culture Victory. I think that's the main means of winning Civilization? Been years since I played one.

arcticbull 3y ago
Last time I got nuked by Ghandi so it's hard to say.
cperciva 3y ago
Is it that shocking that a computer game made in the USA has notions of "winning" which align with those which are dominant in American culture?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- satvikpendem 3y ago
  What other win conditions would you add? The US is not the only country that conquers and exports culture, civilizations have been doing that since the first hunter gatherer planted some cereals on the banks of their closest river.
  - cperciva 3y ago
    Some members of the Chinese government take the view that anyone of Chinese ancestry is fundamentally Chinese, regardless of where they live or to whom they pledge allegiance; they would presumably consider "our descendants are X% of the world population" to be as much of a victory condition as "we control X% of the world's surface area". Some members of the Russian government take the view that anyone who can speak Russian is fundamentally Russian; they would presumably consider "X% of the world population speaks Russian" to be a victory condition. Many religious groups consider "X% of the world shares our beliefs" to be a victory condition, of course. I don't share any of these positions, but of course I come from a Western Liberal background.
    - satvikpendem 3y ago
      The first two fit into the Culture Victory, the religion one fits into, well, the Religion Victory. The 6 types in the Civilization games are Science, Culture, Domination, Religion, Score, and Diplomacy. I don't see what else could be added.
- throwaway4aday 3y ago
  I can never understand the desire to pretend that human nature isn't the same around the world. I think it's the same instinct that causes people to pine for the good old days.
  - tstrimple 3y ago
    Right. Like everyone has the same instincts as the Japanese to clean up their spaces after their are used. It’s why our stadiums in the US are so clean and well maintained.
    - throwaway4aday 3y ago
      That's not an instinct, it's a cultural norm strictly enforced by societal pressure. You also seem to have forgotten that the Japanese made one of the biggest plays for military dominance in the modern era. They followed that up with a really good attempt at economic dominance.
stavros 3y ago
I like how you're using a game that obviously reflects the values of the culture that created it to make the point that that culture is better. If Civilization were made in Denmark, you'd have Population Happiness Victory and that's about it.
- rozab 3y ago
  Paradox Games are from Sweden.
  - stavros 3y ago
    Hmm, how is that relevant?
- Dalewyn 3y ago
  I wasn't the guy to first use the term "Civilization Earth"[1] in this thread, though. Thread framed the conversation around Civilization, I followed suit. If you have a problem, take it up with that guy. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36219608 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36219608
accoil 3y ago
Magnasanti scores very well in SimCity. I wouldn't rank it very high in cities to live...
SanderNL 3y ago
Diplomacy Victory? I’m not too sure.. Your friends are just rich, but not numerous. Most of the world hates us in various ways. Culture victory? You did come up with the book of Mormon, which I guess is some kind of achievement. Conquer Victory, now this eclipses everything. The size of US army apparatus is astounding. No doubt about that.

whiddershins 3y ago

Show me some evidence for how other countries have produced greater wealth for “the group” than the “selfish US.”

themoonisachees 3y ago
Wealth inequality in the US today is worse than France right before the revolution. The US is a great country to go to if you're already rich.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
  Three years ago I came to Florida without a nickel in my pocket. Now I've got a nickel in my pocket.
- systemvoltage 3y ago
  Inequality is a feature, not a bug as long as the standards for everyone improves. The problem is that the lowest has not seen improvement in certain areas. Inequality is a term so alluring to mid-IQ activists. I'll take today's inequality vs. poverty of 100 years ago. The world has improved, period. Similarly, I'll take a nation full of extreme inequality if their average standards of living are better than say, Honduras.
  - arcticbull 3y ago
    I like to say that inequality is only a feature if it's coupled with social mobility and a high and rising standard of living for the lower class.
    - systemvoltage 3y ago
      Agreed. Another way to also look at this is that if 95% of the people's median (not average) shifts upwards, I'll accept the trade offs. That's improvement for vast majority of the people.
      - 3y ago

wyager 3y ago

Aliens would probably not care that french people have more vacation days.

arcticbull 3y ago
Well if we’re making silly reductive arguments I’m not sure they’d care how many zeroes are in Warren Buffets brokerage account. But you know EADS/Airbus headquarters is in Toulouse if that’s more your speed. There’s also Alstom and SNCF off hand. TotalEnergies. Hermes. Dior. Sanofi. Schneider Electric. Air Liquide. Essilor. You didn’t think they were agrarians did you? They’re the second biggest economy in Europe!
- systemvoltage 3y ago
  Definitely. There are some cool badass things in EU. There is also the French military industrial complex, a mini version of US. That said, I was shocked to learn about average software engineering salaries in Europe. Why can't Europe build amazing high margin software businesses or any hyper growth companies? And pay their engineers like kings? That'd be cool and give a strong reality check for California. For now, I'll honestly take 2.5x salary in US over pretty much any other place. And I love guns (own several).
  - arcticbull 3y ago
    > Why can't Europe build amazing high margin software businesses or any hyper growth companies? It's a good question, my guess is network effects. The people who would want to do this want to be near other people who would want to do this - and the biggest extant pool is in California. > For now, I'll honestly take 2.5x salary in US over pretty much any other place. Yeah, that's basically my situation too. Honestly probably closer to 4-5X annually what I'd make back home. Nominally, not adjusted for PPP of course. > And I love guns (own several). Haha, we don't have to agree on this one - although I will say they are super fun to shoot.
    - systemvoltage 3y ago

sacrosancty 3y ago

[dead]