4 ms·

It is really strange which drug-related subs are NSFW and which aren't. Like why not alcohol related subs? I think they probably all should be marked NSFW but

by elil17 3y ago

It is really strange which drug-related subs are NSFW and which aren't. Like why not alcohol related subs? I think they probably all should be marked NSFW but it is weird.

burntsushi 3y ago
None of them should be IMO. It's dumb. "I smoked a lovely cigar over the weekend" is fine safe-for-work chit chat.
- esperent 3y ago
  The problem is labelling, in that case. It should be NSFM (not safe for minors) as that's what it really means, but the NSFW label caught on and we're stuck with it now. The obvious suggestion is multiple tags (drugs, sex, violence, gore etc.). But actually that's a really bad idea because it's a slippery slope of censorship - each flavor of the month bad thing gets banned over a decade or so until there's nothing left to ban.
  - burntsushi 3y ago
    Of course it's safe for minors. My son is a minor and he's seen me smoking a cigar on multiple occasions. As far as I can tell, nothing about his safety has been compromised. Respectfully, I think you've lost the plot here. The problem isn't labeling. The problem is overreaching in the first place. And the problem is an inconsistent application of that labeling.
    - elil17 3y ago
      Exposure to tobacco consumption drives tobacco consumption: -Children of tobacco users are more likely to be tobacco users (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5084564/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5084564/) -People who watch TV/movies with characters who use tobacco are more likely to be tobacco users (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2770193/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2770193/) -People who are friends with tobacco users are more likely to be tobacco users (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3691293/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3691293/) -People who see tobacco use on social media are more likely to be tobacco users and, critically, have an increased susceptibility to tobacco even if they are non-users (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35816331/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35816331/) The reality is that tobacco use disorder is a socially transmitted disease, and one of the best ways to prevent it's spread is to protect people from viewing tobacco use. By making it so that you have to opt-in to seeing posts about tobacco on their platform, Reddit is helping people avoid tobacco-related content.
      - burntsushi 3y ago
        That doesn't make r/cigars "not safe for work." It also doesn't make it "not safe for minors." It makes it "something that reddit admins want to force users to opt into seeing." You're also really really really missing the broader point here. By what metric should something on reddit be "opt in"? There are some things that are obvious that we all tend to agree in, and those fall into the useful mental model of "would you look at this at work?" But r/cigars does not fit into that model, yet it is still labeled as such. That means there is some other model being used to force users to opt into "sensitive" content. So what the fuck is it and why doesn't it apply to marijuana? Or fast food? Or one of a number of other unhealthy things for you? And how many of your links apply to cigars? When was the last time you saw a 15 year old smoking a Padron? Fucking never buddy. It's a non-issue. It might play if it were cigarettes or some other trendy thing, but that's not the case here.
        elil17 3y ago
        I agree with you that it should apply to other unhealthy things and that the "NSFW" label is a misnomer. However, I have seen children smoking cigars (albeit cheap ones). Evidence suggests that they are doing so because they are imitating their parents or characters in the media. Tobacco use disorder is on track to kill a billion people by the end of the century. 20% of men die from it. Hiding tobacco use from people who don't have tobacco use disorder is one of the best tools we have to prevent the spread, and I'll gladly voice my support for any measure to do that - even if it isn't applied in the most consistent/fair way.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        burntsushi 3y ago
        All I have to say is that we disagree, and I think your logic is deeply flawed. You're lumping all tobacco use into one category and also seem to be in favor of "any measure" to "hide" it, regardless of its costs and effectiveness. Overall, your position looks incredibly unreasonable to me. I also think that if your reasoning were applied consistently, it would lead to a complete disaster. Basically, this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3D8670smTI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3D8670smTI
axelthegerman 3y ago
I think some people are mixing age control with what is "not safe for work". Everyone I work with is old enough to drink or smoke, so posting about cigars or beers could be appropriate but also could not be. Tldr NSFW != age controls
austhrow743 3y ago
In a general office context people can talk about going wine tasting the previous weekend.
PhasmaFelis 3y ago
Not Safe For Work means "reasonably likely to offend your boss/coworker." Nothing more, nothing less. It's not a value judgment. People get super weird about this. Like, "this is an artistic nude, how dare you condemn it as NSFW."

by elil17 3y ago

It is really strange which drug-related subs are NSFW and which aren't. Like why not alcohol related subs? I think they probably all should be marked NSFW but it is weird.

burntsushi 3y ago

None of them should be IMO. It's dumb. "I smoked a lovely cigar over the weekend" is fine safe-for-work chit chat.

esperent 3y ago
The problem is labelling, in that case. It should be NSFM (not safe for minors) as that's what it really means, but the NSFW label caught on and we're stuck with it now. The obvious suggestion is multiple tags (drugs, sex, violence, gore etc.). But actually that's a really bad idea because it's a slippery slope of censorship - each flavor of the month bad thing gets banned over a decade or so until there's nothing left to ban.
- burntsushi 3y ago
  Of course it's safe for minors. My son is a minor and he's seen me smoking a cigar on multiple occasions. As far as I can tell, nothing about his safety has been compromised. Respectfully, I think you've lost the plot here. The problem isn't labeling. The problem is overreaching in the first place. And the problem is an inconsistent application of that labeling.
  - elil17 3y ago
    Exposure to tobacco consumption drives tobacco consumption: -Children of tobacco users are more likely to be tobacco users (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5084564/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5084564/) -People who watch TV/movies with characters who use tobacco are more likely to be tobacco users (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2770193/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2770193/) -People who are friends with tobacco users are more likely to be tobacco users (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3691293/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3691293/) -People who see tobacco use on social media are more likely to be tobacco users and, critically, have an increased susceptibility to tobacco even if they are non-users (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35816331/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35816331/) The reality is that tobacco use disorder is a socially transmitted disease, and one of the best ways to prevent it's spread is to protect people from viewing tobacco use. By making it so that you have to opt-in to seeing posts about tobacco on their platform, Reddit is helping people avoid tobacco-related content.
    - burntsushi 3y ago
      That doesn't make r/cigars "not safe for work." It also doesn't make it "not safe for minors." It makes it "something that reddit admins want to force users to opt into seeing." You're also really really really missing the broader point here. By what metric should something on reddit be "opt in"? There are some things that are obvious that we all tend to agree in, and those fall into the useful mental model of "would you look at this at work?" But r/cigars does not fit into that model, yet it is still labeled as such. That means there is some other model being used to force users to opt into "sensitive" content. So what the fuck is it and why doesn't it apply to marijuana? Or fast food? Or one of a number of other unhealthy things for you? And how many of your links apply to cigars? When was the last time you saw a 15 year old smoking a Padron? Fucking never buddy. It's a non-issue. It might play if it were cigarettes or some other trendy thing, but that's not the case here.
      - elil17 3y ago
        I agree with you that it should apply to other unhealthy things and that the "NSFW" label is a misnomer. However, I have seen children smoking cigars (albeit cheap ones). Evidence suggests that they are doing so because they are imitating their parents or characters in the media. Tobacco use disorder is on track to kill a billion people by the end of the century. 20% of men die from it. Hiding tobacco use from people who don't have tobacco use disorder is one of the best tools we have to prevent the spread, and I'll gladly voice my support for any measure to do that - even if it isn't applied in the most consistent/fair way.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        burntsushi 3y ago
        All I have to say is that we disagree, and I think your logic is deeply flawed. You're lumping all tobacco use into one category and also seem to be in favor of "any measure" to "hide" it, regardless of its costs and effectiveness. Overall, your position looks incredibly unreasonable to me. I also think that if your reasoning were applied consistently, it would lead to a complete disaster. Basically, this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3D8670smTI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3D8670smTI

axelthegerman 3y ago

I think some people are mixing age control with what is "not safe for work". Everyone I work with is old enough to drink or smoke, so posting about cigars or beers could be appropriate but also could not be. Tldr NSFW != age controls

austhrow743 3y ago

In a general office context people can talk about going wine tasting the previous weekend.

PhasmaFelis 3y ago

Not Safe For Work means "reasonably likely to offend your boss/coworker." Nothing more, nothing less. It's not a value judgment. People get super weird about this. Like, "this is an artistic nude, how dare you condemn it as NSFW."