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And that's your prerogative and I think you should 100% be able to do that.

by tdavis 18y ago

axod 18y ago
Do you think practicing unlicensed plastic surgery via the internet should be fine also? If it's half the price? You have to draw lines to protect the public.
- tdavis 18y ago
  I think that's perfectly fine. Probably not an option I would elect for were I seeking plastic surgery, but that's neither here nor there. I am sick of those lines. Those lines have caused me to lose the ability to smoke in a bar (or basically anywhere else) for christ sake. Those lines have created "helmet laws" and all sorts of "protect Joe from himself" bullshit laws that exist for the sole purpose of annoying me, near as I can tell. Nobody makes Joe sit at the bar any more than anybody makes him get in my Cab (which I intend to use as a battering ram). If, in the course of my cabbing, I were to break an actual law (speed limit, driving uninsured, etc.) then I should be punished. Until then, let me drive recklessly and force small talk with strangers in peace. If you don't let me do that then you've created a law to protect Joe from his own idiocy which is bad enough, but you've also ruined a perfectly good market opportunity.
  - axod 18y ago
    Once you have kids, who might mistakenly choose an unlicensed unsafe taxi over a safe one, you might change your mind. Especially if it's your daughter - rape by unlicensed taxi drivers is a real risk. This isn't about protecting joe from himself, it's about protecting vulnerable people who might make a poor decision just to save a bit of cash. Similar to smoking - it's an expensive addiction (For the smoker and society) and should be actively discouraged. Also it's kinda nice not to have smokers blowing their smoke in mine+my kids faces any more.
    - tptacek 18y ago
      My partner's reaction to this was similar but converse: "finally, hitchhiking murderers no longer have wait out in awful weather!" I mean, this is all hyperbole today. Do I think this is the way deregulation should work, with someone just up and deciding to ignore it and forcing some ad hoc response? No. Do I think it's a big enough deal right now to waste time outlawing? No. Would I fund it? No.
      - dougp 18y ago
        You do realize that usually its the hitchhiker that gets murdered by the person with the car.
        tptacek 18y ago
        Yes, I believe that is his point, and the reason I used the word "converse". :P
    - corentin 18y ago
      > rape by unlicensed taxi drivers is a real risk. Well, I'd say it's as bad as rape by licensed taxi drivers.
      - axod 18y ago
        Not around here, but ymmv.
      - Erwin 18y ago
        "minicab rape" was a frequently enough occurance in London that there were frequent public service announcements before movies just last year, asking people not to take an unlicensed cab, showing how you risk getting raped otherwise. ("minicab" here is any other cab than the usual bulky black London cab).
    - tdavis 18y ago
      I don't say this very often, but: Are you insane?! First of all, any argument that starts with "Once you have kids" isn't an argument at all; I knew I should have stopped there and saved myself money on blood pressure medication. Secondly, why is it the Government's job (or anyone's job) to "protect vulnerable people who might--" okay, I can't even do this. That phrase means the same thing as "protect them from themselves" -- the individual makes a poor decision which affects the individual. Since it falls to a parent to make responsible decisions for an ignorant child, you've once again failed to make a point. "Once" I have kids (I like your finality), I will probably make sure to avoid having them raped to save $10. I could be wrong. As for smoking, it is once again an individual choice. Were there no smokers, I'm sure there would be others ready and willing to use tax dollars to pay their medical expenses (which I have never done, and since I've given years of service to this country everyone can fuck off anyway). If a private establishment decides they wish, for whatever reason, to permit smoking on their property, that is a right the company rationally deserves and in no way warrants regulation by the Government or any other regulatory body. If you prefer non-smoking establishments, show it with your wallet. If such a time came when it was detrimental to a business to afford said luxury to smokers, they would stop. What you feel is "kinda nice" should not warrant a law. It's called personal preference and we all have it. If all of my personal preferences were turned into law, there would be many changes to the world, most of which many people would conservatively call "cruel and unusual."
- gills 18y ago
  No, you don't have to protect people from their own bad judgment. There's an argument for better parenting, not for cartels protecting themselves through regulation. Don't tread on me.
  - deleted 18y ago
    [deleted]
  - tptacek 18y ago
    Yeah. Also, fucking stop signs.
tptacek 18y ago
How does a heavily regulated industry survive when it's forced to compete with deregulated competitors? Look how much better the LC carriers do than United and American. And that's just price deregulation; Southwest still has a crushing regulatory burden. Short term, I agree, PickupPal is not the end of western civilization. But the "pitch" behind this service is basically the total deregulation of car service.
- tdavis 18y ago
  They'd compete the same way they always do... by providing something (guarantee, etc.) the deregulated companies can't. It'll cost more to be "regulated," but that cost is passed onto the consumer. If the consumer puts X guarantee about price, boom, competing. If the consumer doesn't then that means X guarantee isn't necessary and it's time to stop being "regulated" before they go out of business. Then again, even if regulation doesn't help at all, it's still a name; something familiar; something proven. Why do people by OEM hardware packaged by a familiar company at twice the cost when they could just buy it OEM?
  - tptacek 18y ago
    And, as you can see with United and American, the other thing they always do is fail. The answer to "how do you compete when you have a huge regulatory burden that a competitor providing the same value doesn't" is, you don't. And again, that was just price and route deregulation. Southwestern still has to comply with the FAA. There's no regulation a PickupPal driver needs to comply with. You can't start a nail salon without jumping through more hoops than a cab driver would to sign up for this. How do you even tax it?
    - tdavis 18y ago
      I'm not sure what you're arguing here. I don't disagree that if two companies are providing the same value and one has no regulatory burden, that company will succeed while the other will fail. That in no way proves that deregulation is bad, it merely proves that regulation was, apparently, unnecessary in that instance. I just don't see the debate here. If you provide X under regulation Y and I merely provide X, if the average consumer doesn't care about regulation Y then you will fail because I can afford to provide X cheaper than you. If the average consumer only feels warm and fuzzy with regulation Y, I will fail because we are obviously not providing the same (perceived) value. All your Southwestern analogy proves is that price and route regulation is really stupid and wasteful.

And that's your prerogative and I think you should 100% be able to do that.

by tdavis 18y ago

And that's your prerogative and I think you should 100% be able to do that.

axod 18y ago

Do you think practicing unlicensed plastic surgery via the internet should be fine also? If it's half the price? You have to draw lines to protect the public.

tdavis 18y ago
I think that's perfectly fine. Probably not an option I would elect for were I seeking plastic surgery, but that's neither here nor there. I am sick of those lines. Those lines have caused me to lose the ability to smoke in a bar (or basically anywhere else) for christ sake. Those lines have created "helmet laws" and all sorts of "protect Joe from himself" bullshit laws that exist for the sole purpose of annoying me, near as I can tell. Nobody makes Joe sit at the bar any more than anybody makes him get in my Cab (which I intend to use as a battering ram). If, in the course of my cabbing, I were to break an actual law (speed limit, driving uninsured, etc.) then I should be punished. Until then, let me drive recklessly and force small talk with strangers in peace. If you don't let me do that then you've created a law to protect Joe from his own idiocy which is bad enough, but you've also ruined a perfectly good market opportunity.
- axod 18y ago
  Once you have kids, who might mistakenly choose an unlicensed unsafe taxi over a safe one, you might change your mind. Especially if it's your daughter - rape by unlicensed taxi drivers is a real risk. This isn't about protecting joe from himself, it's about protecting vulnerable people who might make a poor decision just to save a bit of cash. Similar to smoking - it's an expensive addiction (For the smoker and society) and should be actively discouraged. Also it's kinda nice not to have smokers blowing their smoke in mine+my kids faces any more.
  - tptacek 18y ago
    My partner's reaction to this was similar but converse: "finally, hitchhiking murderers no longer have wait out in awful weather!" I mean, this is all hyperbole today. Do I think this is the way deregulation should work, with someone just up and deciding to ignore it and forcing some ad hoc response? No. Do I think it's a big enough deal right now to waste time outlawing? No. Would I fund it? No.
    - dougp 18y ago
      You do realize that usually its the hitchhiker that gets murdered by the person with the car.
      - tptacek 18y ago
        Yes, I believe that is his point, and the reason I used the word "converse". :P
  - corentin 18y ago
    > rape by unlicensed taxi drivers is a real risk. Well, I'd say it's as bad as rape by licensed taxi drivers.
    - axod 18y ago
      Not around here, but ymmv.
    - Erwin 18y ago
      "minicab rape" was a frequently enough occurance in London that there were frequent public service announcements before movies just last year, asking people not to take an unlicensed cab, showing how you risk getting raped otherwise. ("minicab" here is any other cab than the usual bulky black London cab).
  - tdavis 18y ago
    I don't say this very often, but: Are you insane?! First of all, any argument that starts with "Once you have kids" isn't an argument at all; I knew I should have stopped there and saved myself money on blood pressure medication. Secondly, why is it the Government's job (or anyone's job) to "protect vulnerable people who might--" okay, I can't even do this. That phrase means the same thing as "protect them from themselves" -- the individual makes a poor decision which affects the individual. Since it falls to a parent to make responsible decisions for an ignorant child, you've once again failed to make a point. "Once" I have kids (I like your finality), I will probably make sure to avoid having them raped to save $10. I could be wrong. As for smoking, it is once again an individual choice. Were there no smokers, I'm sure there would be others ready and willing to use tax dollars to pay their medical expenses (which I have never done, and since I've given years of service to this country everyone can fuck off anyway). If a private establishment decides they wish, for whatever reason, to permit smoking on their property, that is a right the company rationally deserves and in no way warrants regulation by the Government or any other regulatory body. If you prefer non-smoking establishments, show it with your wallet. If such a time came when it was detrimental to a business to afford said luxury to smokers, they would stop. What you feel is "kinda nice" should not warrant a law. It's called personal preference and we all have it. If all of my personal preferences were turned into law, there would be many changes to the world, most of which many people would conservatively call "cruel and unusual."
gills 18y ago
No, you don't have to protect people from their own bad judgment. There's an argument for better parenting, not for cartels protecting themselves through regulation. Don't tread on me.
- deleted 18y ago
  [deleted]
- tptacek 18y ago
  Yeah. Also, fucking stop signs.

tptacek 18y ago

How does a heavily regulated industry survive when it's forced to compete with deregulated competitors? Look how much better the LC carriers do than United and American. And that's just price deregulation; Southwest still has a crushing regulatory burden. Short term, I agree, PickupPal is not the end of western civilization. But the "pitch" behind this service is basically the total deregulation of car service.

tdavis 18y ago
They'd compete the same way they always do... by providing something (guarantee, etc.) the deregulated companies can't. It'll cost more to be "regulated," but that cost is passed onto the consumer. If the consumer puts X guarantee about price, boom, competing. If the consumer doesn't then that means X guarantee isn't necessary and it's time to stop being "regulated" before they go out of business. Then again, even if regulation doesn't help at all, it's still a name; something familiar; something proven. Why do people by OEM hardware packaged by a familiar company at twice the cost when they could just buy it OEM?
- tptacek 18y ago
  And, as you can see with United and American, the other thing they always do is fail. The answer to "how do you compete when you have a huge regulatory burden that a competitor providing the same value doesn't" is, you don't. And again, that was just price and route deregulation. Southwestern still has to comply with the FAA. There's no regulation a PickupPal driver needs to comply with. You can't start a nail salon without jumping through more hoops than a cab driver would to sign up for this. How do you even tax it?
  - tdavis 18y ago
    I'm not sure what you're arguing here. I don't disagree that if two companies are providing the same value and one has no regulatory burden, that company will succeed while the other will fail. That in no way proves that deregulation is bad, it merely proves that regulation was, apparently, unnecessary in that instance. I just don't see the debate here. If you provide X under regulation Y and I merely provide X, if the average consumer doesn't care about regulation Y then you will fail because I can afford to provide X cheaper than you. If the average consumer only feels warm and fuzzy with regulation Y, I will fail because we are obviously not providing the same (perceived) value. All your Southwestern analogy proves is that price and route regulation is really stupid and wasteful.