7 ms·

This guy is damned good. I sponsored him on Github because his software is dope. I also like how when some controversy erupted on the project he just ejected th

by _20p0 3y ago

This guy is damned good. I sponsored him on Github because his software is dope. I also like how when some controversy erupted on the project he just ejected the controversial people and moved on. Good stewardship. Great code. I recall something like when he first ported it and it worked on my M1 Max he hadn't even yet tested it on Apple Silicon since he didn't have the hardware. Honestly, with this and whisper, I am a huge fan. Good luck to him and the new company.

killthebuddha 3y ago
Another important detail about the ejections that I think is particularly classy is that the people he ejected are broadly considered to have world-class technical skills. In other words, he was very explicitly prioritizing collaborative potential > technical skill. Maybe a future BDFL[1]! [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictator_for_life https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictator_for_life
- jart 3y ago
  Gerganov was prioritizing collaboration with 4chan who raided his GitHub to demand a change written by a transgender woman be reverted. There was so much hate speech and immaturity thrown around (words like tranny troon cucking muh model) that it's a real embarrassment (to those of us deeply want to see local models succeed) that one of the smartest guys working on the problem was taken in by all that. You can't run a collaborative environment that's open when you pander to hate, because hate subverts communities; it's impossible to compromise with anonymous trolls who harass a public figure over physical traits about her body she can't change. You don't have to take my word on it. Here are some archives of the 4chan threads where they coordinated the raid. It went on for like a month. https://archive.is/EX7Fq https://archive.is/EX7Fq https://archive.is/enjpf https://archive.is/enjpf https://archive.is/Kbjtt https://archive.is/Kbjtt https://archive.is/HGwZm https://archive.is/HGwZm https://archive.is/pijMv https://archive.is/pijMv https://archive.is/M7hLJ https://archive.is/M7hLJ https://archive.is/4UxKP https://archive.is/4UxKP https://archive.is/IB9bv https://archive.is/IB9bv https://archive.is/p6Q2q https://archive.is/p6Q2q https://archive.is/phCGN https://archive.is/phCGN https://archive.is/M6AF1 https://archive.is/M6AF1 https://archive.is/mXoBs https://archive.is/mXoBs https://archive.is/68Ayg https://archive.is/68Ayg https://archive.is/DamPp https://archive.is/DamPp https://archive.is/DiQC2 https://archive.is/DiQC2 https://archive.is/DeX8Z https://archive.is/DeX8Z https://archive.is/gStQ1 https://archive.is/gStQ1 If you read these threads and see how nasty these little monsters are, you can probably imagine how Gerganov must have felt. He was probably scared they'd harass him too, since 4chan acts like he's their boy. I wouldn't even be surprised if he's one of them. Plus it was weak leadership on his part to disappear for days, suddenly show up again to neutral knight the situation (https://justine.lol/neutral-knight.png https://justine.lol/neutral-knight.png) by telling his team members they're no longer welcome, and then going back and deleting his comment later. It goes to show that no matter how brilliant you are at hard technical skills, you can still be totally clueless about people.
  - IAmNotACellist 3y ago
    Liar. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35455930#35458068 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35455930#35458068 This user stole another user's code, closed his PR, and opened a new one where she started using words like "my work," "I'm the author," "author here," etc., and trying to cozy up to the project lead. Gerganov figured out what was happening and actually banned her from all further contributions. The user whose code was stolen, Slaren, is still contributing.
    - jart 3y ago
      Good artists copy and great artists steal.
      - IAmNotACellist 3y ago
        >Good artists copy and great artists steal. This user claims Gerganov publicly humiliated her, but she does it to herself.
  - killthebuddha 3y ago
    I didn't want to not reply but I also didn't want to be swept into a potentially fraught internet argument. So, I tried to edit my comment as a middle ground, but it looks like I can't, I guess there must be a timeout. If I could edit it, I'd add the following: "I should point out that I wasn't personally involved, haven't looked into it in detail, and that there are many different perspectives that should be considered."
  - zo1 3y ago
    Really curious why you tried to rename the file format magic string to have your initials? Going from GGML (see Title of this post) to GGJT with JT being Justine Tunney? Seems quite unnecessary and bound to have rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. Here is the official commit undoing the change: https://github.com/ggerganov/llama.cpp/pull/711/files#diff-7696a3039a95b41e744a08272f14d2a4345fddbd06ac482deb37f03a3afad2b5R70 https://github.com/ggerganov/llama.cpp/pull/711/files#diff-7...
evanwise 3y ago
What was the controversy?
- pubby 3y ago
  https://github.com/ggerganov/llama.cpp/pull/711 https://github.com/ggerganov/llama.cpp/pull/711
- kgwgk 3y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35411909 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35411909
nchudleigh 3y ago
he has been amazing to watch and has even helped me out with my app that uses his whisper.cpp project (https://superwhisper.com https://superwhisper.com) Excited to see how his venture goes!
PrimeMcFly 3y ago
> I also like how when some controversy erupted on the project he just ejected the controversial people and moved on. Good stewardship Do you have more info on the controversy? I'm not sure ejecting developers just because of controversy is honestly good stewardship.
- freedomben 3y ago
  Right. More details needed to know if this is good stewardship (ejecting two toxic individuals) or laziness (ejecting a villain and a hero to get rid of the "problem" easily). TikTok was using this method for a while by ejecting both bullies and victims, and it "solved" the problem but most people see the injustice there. I'm not saying it was bad stewardship, I honestly don't know. I just agree that we shouldn't make a judgment without more information.
  - csmpltn 3y ago
    > More details needed to know if this is good stewardship (ejecting two toxic individuals) or laziness (ejecting a villain and a hero to get rid of the "problem" easily). Man, nobody has time for this shit. Leave the games and the drama for the social justice warriors and the furries. People building shit ain't got time for this - ejecting trouble makers is the right way to go regardless of which "side" they're on.
    - freedomben 3y ago
      I would agree that there needs to be a balance because wasting time babysitting adults is dumb, but what if one person is a good and loved contributor, and the other is a social justice warrior new to the project that is picking fights with the contributor? Your philosophy makes not only bad stewardship but an injustice. I'm not suggesting this is the only scenario, just merely a hypothetical that I think illustrates my position.
    - wmf 3y ago
      And what do you do when every contributor to the project, including the founder, has been labeled a troublemaker?

by _20p0 3y ago

killthebuddha 3y ago

Another important detail about the ejections that I think is particularly classy is that the people he ejected are broadly considered to have world-class technical skills. In other words, he was very explicitly prioritizing collaborative potential > technical skill. Maybe a future BDFL[1]! [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictator_for_life https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictator_for_life

jart 3y ago
Gerganov was prioritizing collaboration with 4chan who raided his GitHub to demand a change written by a transgender woman be reverted. There was so much hate speech and immaturity thrown around (words like tranny troon cucking muh model) that it's a real embarrassment (to those of us deeply want to see local models succeed) that one of the smartest guys working on the problem was taken in by all that. You can't run a collaborative environment that's open when you pander to hate, because hate subverts communities; it's impossible to compromise with anonymous trolls who harass a public figure over physical traits about her body she can't change. You don't have to take my word on it. Here are some archives of the 4chan threads where they coordinated the raid. It went on for like a month. https://archive.is/EX7Fq https://archive.is/EX7Fq https://archive.is/enjpf https://archive.is/enjpf https://archive.is/Kbjtt https://archive.is/Kbjtt https://archive.is/HGwZm https://archive.is/HGwZm https://archive.is/pijMv https://archive.is/pijMv https://archive.is/M7hLJ https://archive.is/M7hLJ https://archive.is/4UxKP https://archive.is/4UxKP https://archive.is/IB9bv https://archive.is/IB9bv https://archive.is/p6Q2q https://archive.is/p6Q2q https://archive.is/phCGN https://archive.is/phCGN https://archive.is/M6AF1 https://archive.is/M6AF1 https://archive.is/mXoBs https://archive.is/mXoBs https://archive.is/68Ayg https://archive.is/68Ayg https://archive.is/DamPp https://archive.is/DamPp https://archive.is/DiQC2 https://archive.is/DiQC2 https://archive.is/DeX8Z https://archive.is/DeX8Z https://archive.is/gStQ1 https://archive.is/gStQ1 If you read these threads and see how nasty these little monsters are, you can probably imagine how Gerganov must have felt. He was probably scared they'd harass him too, since 4chan acts like he's their boy. I wouldn't even be surprised if he's one of them. Plus it was weak leadership on his part to disappear for days, suddenly show up again to neutral knight the situation (https://justine.lol/neutral-knight.png https://justine.lol/neutral-knight.png) by telling his team members they're no longer welcome, and then going back and deleting his comment later. It goes to show that no matter how brilliant you are at hard technical skills, you can still be totally clueless about people.
- IAmNotACellist 3y ago
  Liar. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35455930#35458068 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35455930#35458068 This user stole another user's code, closed his PR, and opened a new one where she started using words like "my work," "I'm the author," "author here," etc., and trying to cozy up to the project lead. Gerganov figured out what was happening and actually banned her from all further contributions. The user whose code was stolen, Slaren, is still contributing.
  - jart 3y ago
    Good artists copy and great artists steal.
    - IAmNotACellist 3y ago
      >Good artists copy and great artists steal. This user claims Gerganov publicly humiliated her, but she does it to herself.
- killthebuddha 3y ago
  I didn't want to not reply but I also didn't want to be swept into a potentially fraught internet argument. So, I tried to edit my comment as a middle ground, but it looks like I can't, I guess there must be a timeout. If I could edit it, I'd add the following: "I should point out that I wasn't personally involved, haven't looked into it in detail, and that there are many different perspectives that should be considered."
- zo1 3y ago
  Really curious why you tried to rename the file format magic string to have your initials? Going from GGML (see Title of this post) to GGJT with JT being Justine Tunney? Seems quite unnecessary and bound to have rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. Here is the official commit undoing the change: https://github.com/ggerganov/llama.cpp/pull/711/files#diff-7696a3039a95b41e744a08272f14d2a4345fddbd06ac482deb37f03a3afad2b5R70 https://github.com/ggerganov/llama.cpp/pull/711/files#diff-7...

evanwise 3y ago

What was the controversy?

pubby 3y ago
https://github.com/ggerganov/llama.cpp/pull/711 https://github.com/ggerganov/llama.cpp/pull/711
kgwgk 3y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35411909 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35411909

nchudleigh 3y ago

he has been amazing to watch and has even helped me out with my app that uses his whisper.cpp project (https://superwhisper.com https://superwhisper.com) Excited to see how his venture goes!

PrimeMcFly 3y ago

> I also like how when some controversy erupted on the project he just ejected the controversial people and moved on. Good stewardship Do you have more info on the controversy? I'm not sure ejecting developers just because of controversy is honestly good stewardship.

freedomben 3y ago
Right. More details needed to know if this is good stewardship (ejecting two toxic individuals) or laziness (ejecting a villain and a hero to get rid of the "problem" easily). TikTok was using this method for a while by ejecting both bullies and victims, and it "solved" the problem but most people see the injustice there. I'm not saying it was bad stewardship, I honestly don't know. I just agree that we shouldn't make a judgment without more information.
- csmpltn 3y ago
  > More details needed to know if this is good stewardship (ejecting two toxic individuals) or laziness (ejecting a villain and a hero to get rid of the "problem" easily). Man, nobody has time for this shit. Leave the games and the drama for the social justice warriors and the furries. People building shit ain't got time for this - ejecting trouble makers is the right way to go regardless of which "side" they're on.
  - freedomben 3y ago
    I would agree that there needs to be a balance because wasting time babysitting adults is dumb, but what if one person is a good and loved contributor, and the other is a social justice warrior new to the project that is picking fights with the contributor? Your philosophy makes not only bad stewardship but an injustice. I'm not suggesting this is the only scenario, just merely a hypothetical that I think illustrates my position.
  - wmf 3y ago
    And what do you do when every contributor to the project, including the founder, has been labeled a troublemaker?