3 ms·
> First of all, you made a general statement and I demonstrated its falsity This is an extremely disingenuous reading of our conversation. I made a specific st
by yebyen 3y ago
> First of all, you made a general statement and I demonstrated its falsity
This is an extremely disingenuous reading of our conversation. I made a specific statement about a particular instance (which you dismissed as cherry-picking), and I asked a question at the same time. Which you reduced overall to a "general statement" while dismissing the specific example that was really important to the context of what point I was trying to make:
> James Collip and Charles Best [donated] the insulin patent "so that everyone could have it" and we still don't have universal low-cost insulin over 100 years later, and prices continue to skyrocket
> Is there any evidence that drug patents can actually enter the public domain productively at their end of their expiration period?
There's an impedance mismatch between "nearly all insurance companies require a generic to be used" and "drug patents should be clearly in the public interest" when "drugs have to be profitable or they are not made by companies anymore."
Why not engage a bit more directly with the original example, if you're going to accuse me of generalizing now? Let's talk about insulin, I'm sure I picked it for a reason.
Is there a generic insulin that is chemically identical to a name brand insulin with the same efficacy? No, there apparently is not [1] – I won't claim to be fully informed on these issues, but it seems pretty clear from reading that the issue cannot simply be reduced to "lots of generics exist, so you are mistaken."
Why can't we have low cost insulin from an entity that operates like the post office, that exists as a public benefit corporation without any profit motive?
Does it really make sense that people who have insurance that is not "top tier" will not have access to the better (still patented) drugs, if they are really better? Are they better, or are they really just "evergreening" patents? If insurance typically only covers generics, then it's really problematic that there is no generic form of this lifesaving drug, and the monopoly persists more than 80 years after the patent should have expired on the original invention!
The deal was supposed to be 20 years. What went wrong, does it "go wrong" a lot, and does it "go wrong" more or less frequently when human lives are at stake? These aren't unfair questions, and if Teva (or any company other than Eli Lilly) made a generic form of Humalog insulin then I probably would not ask them at all. But only Eli Lilly does, only Eli Lilly can.
The same company apparently makes the so-called "generic" insulin that also makes the top-tier patented "Humalog" so maybe there are too many regulatory hurdles or something else is wrong. (I thought that the generics were supposed to represent the competition, that comes to save the day after patents expire...)
If we're central planning, wouldn't we want to promote a resource arrangement such that the best drugs with the most promise and the greatest life-saving properties will go to the most people? Is it really so off-base to conjecture that a resource arrangement that actively does something else is "really evil?"
[1]: https://www.healthline.com/diabetesmine/why-is-there-no-generic-insulin https://www.healthline.com/diabetesmine/why-is-there-no-gene...
- AlbertCory 3y agoNo, you said, "Is there any evidence that drug patents can actually enter the public domain productively at their end of their expiration period?" How is it "disingenuous" to quote that? I'm not "accusing you of generalizing" -- you did it. I don't care to engage with you about insulin or indeed drug patents in general. Just say what you actually mean.
- yebyen 3y agoIf you want to go ahead and remove again the specific context of my question/assertion after I re-added them back together, to emphasize how important that context was, go ahead and do it. I said what I said, in the order that I said it, on purpose. I put the context back there together literally in the comment right above this one (and it was there in my top comment, too) because that was the context that I felt was most important, but now you've cut it right back out again. Are you sure? Humalog as we know it today was first released in the 90's and it's still patented (or, at least Eli Lilly is the only company that can produce it, the specific "it" that we mean when we say Humalog and not "biosimilar to Humalog".) What are the actual enhancements that have been released in 2018-2019 to warrant the granting of a new patent for Eli Lilly's Humalog? Or is it out of patent? What's a biosimilar? (Why can't anyone make Humalog other than companies that own patents on insulin, if Humalog has been out of patent since the mid 2010's?)
- AlbertCory 3y agoall you had to say originally was: "...because it's an argument in bad faith? I too don't see why drug patents are "obvious" or clear case that it is helpful enough to be in the public interest to maintain drug patents. Is there any evidence that ALL drug patents actually enter the public domain productively at their end of their expiration period?" [note the ALL] Since you refuse to just admit you were wrong, we are done here. Go ahead and have the last word if that's important to you. I won't be replying any more.
- yebyen 3y agoLOL you're right, we could have had a civil conversation and productive dialog if I had just included that one word in my first post! My bad.