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A better solution for what? Why would that change anything about tipping at all? This isn't driven by wage pressure that much, and relieving that wage pressure

A better solution for what? Why would that change anything about tipping at all? This isn't driven by wage pressure that much, and relieving that wage pressure won't keep it from being a runaway cultural norm that spirals out of control. Even if I were in favor of minimum wage hikes, I wouldn't think this would change it much. There was a picture the other day on reddit of a self-checkout kiosk asking for tips. Would minimum wage fix that one, do you think? If I get a soda at Sonic, the phone app asks me if I'd like to leave a tip. Can I be sure the employees even receive those? Will minimum wage hikes help guarantee the employees receive those? When a waitress at the chain steak restaurant receives far above minimum wage in tips, will bumping her $2/hour wage to $12/hr be any significant increase for her? Will she start turning down tips and chasing people in the parking lots to give them back their $20s and $50s?

JohnFen 3y ago
> Why would that change anything about tipping at all? It would eliminate much of the extortion aspect of tipping. If I know that the employees are being paid a reasonable wage, then I won't feel that I have to tip them in order to help make up for their employer's skeeziness.
- NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
  On r/antiwork, I see people complaining that they'd only find it possibly to live at some tolerable level with wages far in excess of $50/hour. They seem to take themselves seriously in that. Thus, for any minimum wage below that, it would be fair to assume that they're still desperate. Doesn't this sort of insinuate that the tipping pressure would still be (too) high if they make less than that? Plus, it always strikes me as grifty when I talk about a particular social/political problem and they jump in with "if you'd just do this thing I've always wanted to do for different reasons, it'd fix this problem of yours that has little to do with it!". Such people say such things not because they're sincere or that the two things are particularly intertwined, but instead because it's just another opportunity to push their bullshit. There is no extortion in tipping. It is an entirely different phenomenon. No one is holding a gun to your kid's head, no one is threatening to release incriminating photos of you. Instead, you're worried that a coworker or a girlfriend will notice you only left 18%, despite that being $25, and that they'll think less of you for it. And that would happen even if the waiter refused your tip. It won't be fixed by making the waiter need less tip income, supposing minimum wage changes could even make him need less.
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    > Doesn't this sort of insinuate that the tipping pressure would still be (too) high if they make less than that? There would still remain the other pressures to tip, yes, but it would at least defang the extortion aspect of it. > No one is holding a gun to your kid's head, no one is threatening to release incriminating photos of you. No, instead, the threat is "if you don't tip, you're denying the employee a portion of their already meager wages". That's extortion in my book. A tip is supposed to be a reward, a kind of gift. Framing it as pay removes all the positive aspects of tipping and turns it into extortion. > you're worried that a coworker or a girlfriend will notice you only left 18%, despite that being $25, and that they'll think less of you for it. That is a thing I don't worry about even to the tiniest degree.
PrimeMcFly 3y ago
> Why would that change anything about tipping at all? It shifts the cost of hiring an employee back from the customer to the employer where it belongs.

JohnFen 3y ago

> Why would that change anything about tipping at all? It would eliminate much of the extortion aspect of tipping. If I know that the employees are being paid a reasonable wage, then I won't feel that I have to tip them in order to help make up for their employer's skeeziness.

NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
On r/antiwork, I see people complaining that they'd only find it possibly to live at some tolerable level with wages far in excess of $50/hour. They seem to take themselves seriously in that. Thus, for any minimum wage below that, it would be fair to assume that they're still desperate. Doesn't this sort of insinuate that the tipping pressure would still be (too) high if they make less than that? Plus, it always strikes me as grifty when I talk about a particular social/political problem and they jump in with "if you'd just do this thing I've always wanted to do for different reasons, it'd fix this problem of yours that has little to do with it!". Such people say such things not because they're sincere or that the two things are particularly intertwined, but instead because it's just another opportunity to push their bullshit. There is no extortion in tipping. It is an entirely different phenomenon. No one is holding a gun to your kid's head, no one is threatening to release incriminating photos of you. Instead, you're worried that a coworker or a girlfriend will notice you only left 18%, despite that being $25, and that they'll think less of you for it. And that would happen even if the waiter refused your tip. It won't be fixed by making the waiter need less tip income, supposing minimum wage changes could even make him need less.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  > Doesn't this sort of insinuate that the tipping pressure would still be (too) high if they make less than that? There would still remain the other pressures to tip, yes, but it would at least defang the extortion aspect of it. > No one is holding a gun to your kid's head, no one is threatening to release incriminating photos of you. No, instead, the threat is "if you don't tip, you're denying the employee a portion of their already meager wages". That's extortion in my book. A tip is supposed to be a reward, a kind of gift. Framing it as pay removes all the positive aspects of tipping and turns it into extortion. > you're worried that a coworker or a girlfriend will notice you only left 18%, despite that being $25, and that they'll think less of you for it. That is a thing I don't worry about even to the tiniest degree.

PrimeMcFly 3y ago

> Why would that change anything about tipping at all? It shifts the cost of hiring an employee back from the customer to the employer where it belongs.