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> That many Americans lost money over. This requires a citation with data points, eg how many Americans lost money, how much money did they lose, etc. Because,

> That many Americans lost money over. This requires a citation with data points, eg how many Americans lost money, how much money did they lose, etc. Because, what if there are more Americans who've made money than those who have lost? > SEC said Coinbase has since at least 2019 made billions of dollars by handling cryptocurrency transactions, while evading the disclosure requirements meant to protect investors This is a pure framing - it doesn't matter how much money Coinbase made. Otherwise, it means that if you don't make _billions_, you can conveniently avoid the disclosure requirements intended to protect investors. So really, they should've written something like: "Coinbase has been facilitating cryptocurrency transactions since at least 2019, while evading the disclosure requirements intended to protect investors". While I do understand that these are the legal requirements, the protect investors "narrative" (khm-khm, requirement) is a joke. People lose money trading stocks / options / etc every day. To me, as a consumer, there is zero difference between trading AAPL on TD Ameritrade App vs trading crypto through Coinbase App. How's TD Ameritrade protecting me from losing money?

itake 3y ago
> Because, what if there are more Americans who've made money than those who have lost? Why does this matter? Even if Americans are scamming foreigners (0 Americans losing money), that doesn’t make this legal. The difference between aapl and coinbase is there is regulatory audits of the books and required publications about the health of the security. There are rules about insider trading and insurance protections if a brokerage mishandles your money (see Blockfi).
- andreygrehov 3y ago
  > Why does this matter? Because the parent said "that many Americans lost money over". Plus the SEC is "protecting investors". So I'm asking, what if there are more people who've made money over those who lost? Does that mean life's good? Coinbase has been pretty transparent about their operations. Not only transparent, they've publicly mentioned several times how frustrated they are dealing with SEC, the organization that is slow to come up with various legal requirements for the cryptocurrency industry. In a way, Coinbase helps the SEC to raise their own bar.
  - itake 3y ago
    Would the SEC be protecting investors if they allow 1 investor to get scammed to the benefit of 2+ investors? We need systems in place where everyone can make trustworthy investments. If people can't feel safe (even if it's one person or many people), then our economy will slow down (see current crypto prices post-terra, ftx, and more).
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
dragontamer 3y ago
> This requires a citation with data points, eg how many Americans lost money, how much money did they lose, etc. My coworker lost $X0,000 over Celsius. So yes, maybe this is a personal bias. But its based in reality. His entire account at Celsius is written off. He managed to save his money from Voyager. I got cousins who lost money in FTX. Different people, but same overall problem. If my personal social circle is showing huge losses in these companies, I have to imagine that other people out there have similar experiences. I don't need a study to prove the facts, I just talk to my cousins / coworkers / other people who are directly affected. EDIT: I forgot about this lovely thing: https://cases.stretto.com/public/x191/11749/PLEADINGS/1174910062280000000005.pdf https://cases.stretto.com/public/x191/11749/PLEADINGS/117491... See page 34, containing links to the customers who lost money in celsius. For the list of customers starting with the letter "A": https://cases.stretto.com/public/x191/11749/CORRESPONDENCE/1174910062250000000004.pdf https://cases.stretto.com/public/x191/11749/CORRESPONDENCE/1... There, that's Celsius alone. Is that enough proof for ya? > Because, what if there are more Americans who've made money than those who have lost? Its not about making or losing money. Its about accounts disappearing because they've been lied to. We're all adults here. We know that investments can lose money. But lying about those investments is where the law needs to step in. Liars need to be punished. And I get that people have been skirting the truth recently. But when we get to Celsius, Voyager, and FTX, the money was just straight up being stolen. Its the worst case offenders. So now we need to think about what kind of culture caused these crimes. And its increasingly looking like "staking", and the culture surrounding it, is to blame.
- andreygrehov 3y ago
  > If my personal social circle is showing huge losses in these companies, I have to imagine that other people out there have similar experiences. This is a personal bias. I've made $86,000 trading Ethereum. My brother-in-law made $24,000 trading Bitcoin. My reality is different from your reality ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I can't speak for Celsius, Voyager, and FTX. If there was a scam, it has to be punished. No questions asked. But Coinbase has been closely working with SEC for years.
  - dragontamer 3y ago
anonymouskimmer 3y ago
> How's TD Ameritrade protecting me from losing money? https://www.tdameritrade.com/regulation-best-interest-and-form-crs.html https://www.tdameritrade.com/regulation-best-interest-and-fo...

itake 3y ago

> Because, what if there are more Americans who've made money than those who have lost? Why does this matter? Even if Americans are scamming foreigners (0 Americans losing money), that doesn’t make this legal. The difference between aapl and coinbase is there is regulatory audits of the books and required publications about the health of the security. There are rules about insider trading and insurance protections if a brokerage mishandles your money (see Blockfi).

andreygrehov 3y ago
> Why does this matter? Because the parent said "that many Americans lost money over". Plus the SEC is "protecting investors". So I'm asking, what if there are more people who've made money over those who lost? Does that mean life's good? Coinbase has been pretty transparent about their operations. Not only transparent, they've publicly mentioned several times how frustrated they are dealing with SEC, the organization that is slow to come up with various legal requirements for the cryptocurrency industry. In a way, Coinbase helps the SEC to raise their own bar.
- itake 3y ago
  Would the SEC be protecting investors if they allow 1 investor to get scammed to the benefit of 2+ investors? We need systems in place where everyone can make trustworthy investments. If people can't feel safe (even if it's one person or many people), then our economy will slow down (see current crypto prices post-terra, ftx, and more).
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

dragontamer 3y ago

> This requires a citation with data points, eg how many Americans lost money, how much money did they lose, etc. My coworker lost $X0,000 over Celsius. So yes, maybe this is a personal bias. But its based in reality. His entire account at Celsius is written off. He managed to save his money from Voyager. I got cousins who lost money in FTX. Different people, but same overall problem. If my personal social circle is showing huge losses in these companies, I have to imagine that other people out there have similar experiences. I don't need a study to prove the facts, I just talk to my cousins / coworkers / other people who are directly affected. EDIT: I forgot about this lovely thing: https://cases.stretto.com/public/x191/11749/PLEADINGS/1174910062280000000005.pdf https://cases.stretto.com/public/x191/11749/PLEADINGS/117491... See page 34, containing links to the customers who lost money in celsius. For the list of customers starting with the letter "A": https://cases.stretto.com/public/x191/11749/CORRESPONDENCE/1174910062250000000004.pdf https://cases.stretto.com/public/x191/11749/CORRESPONDENCE/1... There, that's Celsius alone. Is that enough proof for ya? > Because, what if there are more Americans who've made money than those who have lost? Its not about making or losing money. Its about accounts disappearing because they've been lied to. We're all adults here. We know that investments can lose money. But lying about those investments is where the law needs to step in. Liars need to be punished. And I get that people have been skirting the truth recently. But when we get to Celsius, Voyager, and FTX, the money was just straight up being stolen. Its the worst case offenders. So now we need to think about what kind of culture caused these crimes. And its increasingly looking like "staking", and the culture surrounding it, is to blame.

andreygrehov 3y ago
> If my personal social circle is showing huge losses in these companies, I have to imagine that other people out there have similar experiences. This is a personal bias. I've made $86,000 trading Ethereum. My brother-in-law made $24,000 trading Bitcoin. My reality is different from your reality ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I can't speak for Celsius, Voyager, and FTX. If there was a scam, it has to be punished. No questions asked. But Coinbase has been closely working with SEC for years.
- dragontamer 3y ago

anonymouskimmer 3y ago

> How's TD Ameritrade protecting me from losing money? https://www.tdameritrade.com/regulation-best-interest-and-form-crs.html https://www.tdameritrade.com/regulation-best-interest-and-fo...