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> the new API pricing is reasonable and not intended to kill third party apps. It’s quite obviously not the case given the numbers involved, but it’s completel

> the new API pricing is reasonable and not intended to kill third party apps. It’s quite obviously not the case given the numbers involved, but it’s completely implausible when you add that NSFW content will be removed from the API entirely, and that third party client will not be allowed to be ad-supported.

burntsushi 3y ago
> NSFW content will be removed from the API entirely Wow. I didn't know about that. That would prevent browsing /r/cigars via API calls. Because every post in /r/cigars is marked as NSFW. Why? I'll give you one guess. https://old.reddit.com/r/cigars/comments/ubu6b2/why_is_rcigars_marked_nsfw/ https://old.reddit.com/r/cigars/comments/ubu6b2/why_is_rciga...
- masklinn 3y ago
  > Wow. I didn't know about that. According to the Apollo dev's recounting of the call this is "sexually explicit content only, not normal posts marked NSFW for non-sexual reasons". I assume there's a flag at the subreddit level or something, because Narwhal doesn't show the "cheeky narwhal" on /r/cigars (something it does on NSFW subs). I don't know how they'll handle SFW subreddits where NSFW is used for both spoilers and dodgy content though. That's assuming they even care.
- elil17 3y ago
  It is really strange which drug-related subs are NSFW and which aren't. Like why not alcohol related subs? I think they probably all should be marked NSFW but it is weird.
  - burntsushi 3y ago
    None of them should be IMO. It's dumb. "I smoked a lovely cigar over the weekend" is fine safe-for-work chit chat.
    - esperent 3y ago
      The problem is labelling, in that case. It should be NSFM (not safe for minors) as that's what it really means, but the NSFW label caught on and we're stuck with it now. The obvious suggestion is multiple tags (drugs, sex, violence, gore etc.). But actually that's a really bad idea because it's a slippery slope of censorship - each flavor of the month bad thing gets banned over a decade or so until there's nothing left to ban.
      - burntsushi 3y ago
        Of course it's safe for minors. My son is a minor and he's seen me smoking a cigar on multiple occasions. As far as I can tell, nothing about his safety has been compromised. Respectfully, I think you've lost the plot here. The problem isn't labeling. The problem is overreaching in the first place. And the problem is an inconsistent application of that labeling.
        elil17 3y ago
        Exposure to tobacco consumption drives tobacco consumption: -Children of tobacco users are more likely to be tobacco users (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5084564/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5084564/) -People who watch TV/movies with characters who use tobacco are more likely to be tobacco users (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2770193/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2770193/) -People who are friends with tobacco users are more likely to be tobacco users (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3691293/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3691293/) -People who see tobacco use on social media are more likely to be tobacco users and, critically, have an increased susceptibility to tobacco even if they are non-users (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35816331/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35816331/) The reality is that tobacco use disorder is a socially transmitted disease, and one of the best ways to prevent it's spread is to protect people from viewing tobacco use. By making it so that you have to opt-in to seeing posts about tobacco on their platform, Reddit is helping people avoid tobacco-related content.
        3y ago
  - axelthegerman 3y ago
    I think some people are mixing age control with what is "not safe for work". Everyone I work with is old enough to drink or smoke, so posting about cigars or beers could be appropriate but also could not be. Tldr NSFW != age controls
  - austhrow743 3y ago
    In a general office context people can talk about going wine tasting the previous weekend.
  - PhasmaFelis 3y ago
    Not Safe For Work means "reasonably likely to offend your boss/coworker." Nothing more, nothing less. It's not a value judgment. People get super weird about this. Like, "this is an artistic nude, how dare you condemn it as NSFW."
Genbox 3y ago
I've done my best to research this and I'm unable to find any numbers on the matter besides one app developers miscalculation of 20 mio. for billions of requests. I can however find official documentation that backs up what the admins are saying. The new Data API terms says they no long allow commercial use of their APIs and might implement a cost pr. request. It links to the Data API docs that says 60 req. pr. minute are free as long as it is non-commercial. I would think unofficial reddit apps goes under the non-commercial clause. To me it looks to be a complete overreaction by the Reddit community because of a miscommunication on parts of a single developer and the Reddit orgs too slow reaction to stop it from spreading.
- axelthegerman 3y ago
  > 60 req. pr. minute are free I don't think that will get a moderately used app very far. These limits would most likely be per API key and not per user
  - renewiltord 3y ago
    Is there a reason a user can't just paste in their key into the client? That seems to be the right model.
  - LawnGnome 3y ago
    It's going up to 100 req/m, but the new limit is indeed per key, not per user. (See https://old.reddit.com/r/redditdev/comments/13wsiks/api_update_enterprise_level_tier_for_large_scale/ https://old.reddit.com/r/redditdev/comments/13wsiks/api_upda... for more detail.)
- proamdev123 3y ago
  Can you elaborate on where the miscalculation was in the Apollo dev’s math? The numbers he posted seem to add up.
- austhrow743 3y ago
  Why would third party reddit apps all under non-commercial?
hackernewds 3y ago
> It's quite obviously not the case given the numbers involved why is this assumed? In my assessment, Reddit is offering a quite reasonable charge per API call. If this will somehow cause a third-party app to ride up $20M in costs, it behooves them to optimize. As far as I can see, Apollo caches an absurd amount of data pre load which is not a mandatory advantage any app needs to offer

burntsushi 3y ago

> NSFW content will be removed from the API entirely Wow. I didn't know about that. That would prevent browsing /r/cigars via API calls. Because every post in /r/cigars is marked as NSFW. Why? I'll give you one guess. https://old.reddit.com/r/cigars/comments/ubu6b2/why_is_rcigars_marked_nsfw/ https://old.reddit.com/r/cigars/comments/ubu6b2/why_is_rciga...

masklinn 3y ago
> Wow. I didn't know about that. According to the Apollo dev's recounting of the call this is "sexually explicit content only, not normal posts marked NSFW for non-sexual reasons". I assume there's a flag at the subreddit level or something, because Narwhal doesn't show the "cheeky narwhal" on /r/cigars (something it does on NSFW subs). I don't know how they'll handle SFW subreddits where NSFW is used for both spoilers and dodgy content though. That's assuming they even care.
elil17 3y ago
It is really strange which drug-related subs are NSFW and which aren't. Like why not alcohol related subs? I think they probably all should be marked NSFW but it is weird.
- burntsushi 3y ago
  None of them should be IMO. It's dumb. "I smoked a lovely cigar over the weekend" is fine safe-for-work chit chat.
  - esperent 3y ago
    The problem is labelling, in that case. It should be NSFM (not safe for minors) as that's what it really means, but the NSFW label caught on and we're stuck with it now. The obvious suggestion is multiple tags (drugs, sex, violence, gore etc.). But actually that's a really bad idea because it's a slippery slope of censorship - each flavor of the month bad thing gets banned over a decade or so until there's nothing left to ban.
    - burntsushi 3y ago
      Of course it's safe for minors. My son is a minor and he's seen me smoking a cigar on multiple occasions. As far as I can tell, nothing about his safety has been compromised. Respectfully, I think you've lost the plot here. The problem isn't labeling. The problem is overreaching in the first place. And the problem is an inconsistent application of that labeling.
      - elil17 3y ago
        Exposure to tobacco consumption drives tobacco consumption: -Children of tobacco users are more likely to be tobacco users (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5084564/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5084564/) -People who watch TV/movies with characters who use tobacco are more likely to be tobacco users (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2770193/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2770193/) -People who are friends with tobacco users are more likely to be tobacco users (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3691293/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3691293/) -People who see tobacco use on social media are more likely to be tobacco users and, critically, have an increased susceptibility to tobacco even if they are non-users (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35816331/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35816331/) The reality is that tobacco use disorder is a socially transmitted disease, and one of the best ways to prevent it's spread is to protect people from viewing tobacco use. By making it so that you have to opt-in to seeing posts about tobacco on their platform, Reddit is helping people avoid tobacco-related content.
        3y ago
- axelthegerman 3y ago
  I think some people are mixing age control with what is "not safe for work". Everyone I work with is old enough to drink or smoke, so posting about cigars or beers could be appropriate but also could not be. Tldr NSFW != age controls
- austhrow743 3y ago
  In a general office context people can talk about going wine tasting the previous weekend.
- PhasmaFelis 3y ago
  Not Safe For Work means "reasonably likely to offend your boss/coworker." Nothing more, nothing less. It's not a value judgment. People get super weird about this. Like, "this is an artistic nude, how dare you condemn it as NSFW."

Genbox 3y ago

I've done my best to research this and I'm unable to find any numbers on the matter besides one app developers miscalculation of 20 mio. for billions of requests. I can however find official documentation that backs up what the admins are saying. The new Data API terms says they no long allow commercial use of their APIs and might implement a cost pr. request. It links to the Data API docs that says 60 req. pr. minute are free as long as it is non-commercial. I would think unofficial reddit apps goes under the non-commercial clause. To me it looks to be a complete overreaction by the Reddit community because of a miscommunication on parts of a single developer and the Reddit orgs too slow reaction to stop it from spreading.

axelthegerman 3y ago
> 60 req. pr. minute are free I don't think that will get a moderately used app very far. These limits would most likely be per API key and not per user
- renewiltord 3y ago
  Is there a reason a user can't just paste in their key into the client? That seems to be the right model.
- LawnGnome 3y ago
  It's going up to 100 req/m, but the new limit is indeed per key, not per user. (See https://old.reddit.com/r/redditdev/comments/13wsiks/api_update_enterprise_level_tier_for_large_scale/ https://old.reddit.com/r/redditdev/comments/13wsiks/api_upda... for more detail.)
proamdev123 3y ago
Can you elaborate on where the miscalculation was in the Apollo dev’s math? The numbers he posted seem to add up.
austhrow743 3y ago
Why would third party reddit apps all under non-commercial?

hackernewds 3y ago

> It's quite obviously not the case given the numbers involved why is this assumed? In my assessment, Reddit is offering a quite reasonable charge per API call. If this will somehow cause a third-party app to ride up $20M in costs, it behooves them to optimize. As far as I can see, Apollo caches an absurd amount of data pre load which is not a mandatory advantage any app needs to offer