6 ms·

ASICs did take on bitcoin, but not on Ethereum. The ASICs provide an optimized compute unit but they do suck when it comes to memory addressing. Effectively it

by xxs 3y ago

ASICs did take on bitcoin, but not on Ethereum. The ASICs provide an optimized compute unit but they do suck when it comes to memory addressing. Effectively it'd require the entirely memory controller and the cache, and scheduling. At point point you got most of the GPU w/ a stuck, non-programmable interface of a designated compute. Likely you'd never have to compete for advanced nodes as well.

58x14 3y ago
I worked with an electrical engineer who disclosed to me a mid 8 figures investment made by a PE firm to develop Ethereum FPGA and ASIC hardware, and while he told me they were underwater on that deal, they did achieve (IIRC) 30%+ performance (watt to flop) relative to (at the time) top-of-the-line GPUs. I wonder what they’re doing with that hardware now.
- shiftpgdn 3y ago
  Still useful for other coins, though the returns may not be very great.
- xxs 3y ago
  Interesting, what memory did they manage to use - I suppose not HBM.
paulmd 3y ago
ethereum ASICs existed - at least a few were publicly known (antminer and other brands had a few) but others likely existed on the down-low as well. They were never about optimized compute but rather a cost-optimized way to deploy a shitload of DDR/GDDR channels reliably at minimum cost. Ethereum is designed to bottleneck on memory bandwidth (while being uncacheable) so at the end of the day the name of the game is how many memory channels can you slap onto a minimum-cost board. You won't drastically win on perf/w - but as mentioned by a sibling, 30-100% over a fully general-purpose gaming GPU is likely possible, because you don't have to have a whole general-purpose GPU sitting there idling (and it's not a coincidence that gaming GPUs were undervolted/etc to try and bring that power down - but you can't turn everything off). "ASIC-resistance" just means an ASIC is only 1-10x more efficient than a general-purpose device, so general-purpose hardware can still stay in the game. It doesn't mean ASIC-proof, you can still make ASICs and they still have at least some perf/w advantage. However, if your ASIC costs $100 to get the same performance as a 3060 Ti, that's a huge win even if you only beat the perf/w by 50%. Particularly since your ASIC is likely way easier and more stable to deploy at scale, and doesn't require a host rig with at least a couple hundred bucks of computer gear to even turn on. Only plebs were buying up GPUs from retailers or sniping websites, buying from ebay was for the chumpiest of chumps. Gangsters were buying them from the board partners a truckload at a time, true elites just pay someone to engineer an ASIC and do a small run of them. Eight-figures (as mentioned by a sibling) is plenty, a $50-75m run of ASICs is quite a lot of silicon even on a fairly modern node (and some mining companies were publicly known to be using TSMC 7nm and other very modern nodes). And when you invest that kind of money, you don't flash it around and scare the marks.

by xxs 3y ago

58x14 3y ago

I worked with an electrical engineer who disclosed to me a mid 8 figures investment made by a PE firm to develop Ethereum FPGA and ASIC hardware, and while he told me they were underwater on that deal, they did achieve (IIRC) 30%+ performance (watt to flop) relative to (at the time) top-of-the-line GPUs. I wonder what they’re doing with that hardware now.

shiftpgdn 3y ago
Still useful for other coins, though the returns may not be very great.
xxs 3y ago
Interesting, what memory did they manage to use - I suppose not HBM.

paulmd 3y ago

ethereum ASICs existed - at least a few were publicly known (antminer and other brands had a few) but others likely existed on the down-low as well. They were never about optimized compute but rather a cost-optimized way to deploy a shitload of DDR/GDDR channels reliably at minimum cost. Ethereum is designed to bottleneck on memory bandwidth (while being uncacheable) so at the end of the day the name of the game is how many memory channels can you slap onto a minimum-cost board. You won't drastically win on perf/w - but as mentioned by a sibling, 30-100% over a fully general-purpose gaming GPU is likely possible, because you don't have to have a whole general-purpose GPU sitting there idling (and it's not a coincidence that gaming GPUs were undervolted/etc to try and bring that power down - but you can't turn everything off). "ASIC-resistance" just means an ASIC is only 1-10x more efficient than a general-purpose device, so general-purpose hardware can still stay in the game. It doesn't mean ASIC-proof, you can still make ASICs and they still have at least some perf/w advantage. However, if your ASIC costs $100 to get the same performance as a 3060 Ti, that's a huge win even if you only beat the perf/w by 50%. Particularly since your ASIC is likely way easier and more stable to deploy at scale, and doesn't require a host rig with at least a couple hundred bucks of computer gear to even turn on. Only plebs were buying up GPUs from retailers or sniping websites, buying from ebay was for the chumpiest of chumps. Gangsters were buying them from the board partners a truckload at a time, true elites just pay someone to engineer an ASIC and do a small run of them. Eight-figures (as mentioned by a sibling) is plenty, a $50-75m run of ASICs is quite a lot of silicon even on a fairly modern node (and some mining companies were publicly known to be using TSMC 7nm and other very modern nodes). And when you invest that kind of money, you don't flash it around and scare the marks.