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> Yes they do. Lots of people do because they talk to their kids. You are assuming that the kids somehow magically know what would make them happy. > One day,

by debok 3y ago

> Yes they do. Lots of people do because they talk to their kids. You are assuming that the kids somehow magically know what would make them happy. > One day, your kids are going to tell you that you are wrong. Totally wrong. Wrong about morality and ethics. Wrong wrong. And you are going to have to believe them, or you will lose access to a part of their life forever. How do you know that? I for one feel that my parents gave me way too much access to tech while I was too young to handle it. Also, I wouldn't cut my parents off for disagreeing with me about morality or ethics, I would expect the same treatment from my kids when they are grown-ups. > Raising a kid is hard, but being a kid is harder. I did both, and in my experience raising a kid is much harder than being one.

elzbardico 3y ago
Sometimes they don't know what WOULD make them happy, but most of the time they are pretty certain about what DID make them happy or unhappy. So, adjust as required. Your goal is not to eliminate all the potential for suffering and frustration in their lives, this is a lame, and impossible goal. Your goal is to enable them to deal with that in a positive and constructive way.
- prepend 3y ago
  > Sometimes they don't know what WOULD make them happy, but most of the time they are pretty certain about what DID make them happy or unhappy. I’m not so sure about this. I’m not certain what did make me happy or unhappy. I have some theories and sometimes are really confident, but it’s hard to tell a year later out of all the things done which positively contributed and which didn’t. Also, I don’t think the goal of parenting is happiness. Not for the parents or kids. Life is more than just being happy and I think it’s reductionist to focus on that as the paramount outcome. Especially to kids where there’s lots of stuff happening that may not pay off until years later- studying, being creative, training, learning, etc. Maybe positive decisions are not going to yield happiness for a long time. And as a parent, there’s so much sacrifice that we make for kids that don’t involve any happiness for the parent but give more probability of success for our children.
  - debok 3y ago
    You are speaking with wisdom. I completely agree. We must remember that kids are very inexperienced in life, sometimes it is necessary to state this obvious fact. Parents have to make decisions for our kids based on how much life-experience they have. I don't let my 3 year old decide what to have for dinner, because it would cause him to be sick very quickly. We can bring this full circle to the OP: We don't let our kids have their own smartphones before they reach their teens, and I think that is wise.
geocar 3y ago
> Also, I wouldn't cut my parents off for disagreeing with me about morality or ethics You must mean something different than what I mean: What about someone who was molested by their parents? Should they keep contact with them? You think those people who would rape a kid should have friends and a social group that accepts them for who they are? Is there something here you think is okay? Listen, I would judge you if I found out you defended your parents diddling some kids, and if you think your kids wouldn't judge you for it I think you really must have messed them up bad. I really hope you mean something else. > You are assuming that the kids somehow magically know what would make them happy. Nothing magical about knowing if you're unhappy or not. Everyone knows when they are unhappy. You sound really unhappy. What can I do that would make you happier?
- sokoloff 3y ago
  If you meant abuse, you certainly could have been a lot more clearer than your original text that GP cited: > One day, your kids are going to tell you that you are wrong. Totally wrong. Wrong about morality and ethics. Wrong wrong. And you are going to have to believe them, or you will lose access to a part of their life forever.
  - geocar 3y ago
    > If you meant abuse, you certainly could have been a lot more clearer... debok are telling me they can have a relationship with someone who is immoral and unethical in their opinion. Are you saying you think abuse isn't immoral or unethical?
    - sokoloff 3y ago
      Not at all. Are you saying that abuse is the only (or even primary) thing that a kid could conceivably complain is immoral or unethical? P -> Q != Q -> P
      - geocar 3y ago
        > Not at all. Then stop changing the subject. We are taking about this distressing statement: > Also, I wouldn't cut my parents off for disagreeing with me about morality or ethics, I would expect the same treatment from my kids when they are grown-ups. which certainly sounds like there isn’t a moral or ethical position their parent could have including abuse. I don’t think anyone thinks the only unethical thing in the world is abuse, and I cannot imagine what kind of a person you would have to be to think that I would mean that.

by debok 3y ago

elzbardico 3y ago

Sometimes they don't know what WOULD make them happy, but most of the time they are pretty certain about what DID make them happy or unhappy. So, adjust as required. Your goal is not to eliminate all the potential for suffering and frustration in their lives, this is a lame, and impossible goal. Your goal is to enable them to deal with that in a positive and constructive way.

prepend 3y ago
> Sometimes they don't know what WOULD make them happy, but most of the time they are pretty certain about what DID make them happy or unhappy. I’m not so sure about this. I’m not certain what did make me happy or unhappy. I have some theories and sometimes are really confident, but it’s hard to tell a year later out of all the things done which positively contributed and which didn’t. Also, I don’t think the goal of parenting is happiness. Not for the parents or kids. Life is more than just being happy and I think it’s reductionist to focus on that as the paramount outcome. Especially to kids where there’s lots of stuff happening that may not pay off until years later- studying, being creative, training, learning, etc. Maybe positive decisions are not going to yield happiness for a long time. And as a parent, there’s so much sacrifice that we make for kids that don’t involve any happiness for the parent but give more probability of success for our children.
- debok 3y ago
  You are speaking with wisdom. I completely agree. We must remember that kids are very inexperienced in life, sometimes it is necessary to state this obvious fact. Parents have to make decisions for our kids based on how much life-experience they have. I don't let my 3 year old decide what to have for dinner, because it would cause him to be sick very quickly. We can bring this full circle to the OP: We don't let our kids have their own smartphones before they reach their teens, and I think that is wise.

geocar 3y ago

> Also, I wouldn't cut my parents off for disagreeing with me about morality or ethics You must mean something different than what I mean: What about someone who was molested by their parents? Should they keep contact with them? You think those people who would rape a kid should have friends and a social group that accepts them for who they are? Is there something here you think is okay? Listen, I would judge you if I found out you defended your parents diddling some kids, and if you think your kids wouldn't judge you for it I think you really must have messed them up bad. I really hope you mean something else. > You are assuming that the kids somehow magically know what would make them happy. Nothing magical about knowing if you're unhappy or not. Everyone knows when they are unhappy. You sound really unhappy. What can I do that would make you happier?

sokoloff 3y ago
If you meant abuse, you certainly could have been a lot more clearer than your original text that GP cited: > One day, your kids are going to tell you that you are wrong. Totally wrong. Wrong about morality and ethics. Wrong wrong. And you are going to have to believe them, or you will lose access to a part of their life forever.
- geocar 3y ago
  > If you meant abuse, you certainly could have been a lot more clearer... debok are telling me they can have a relationship with someone who is immoral and unethical in their opinion. Are you saying you think abuse isn't immoral or unethical?
  - sokoloff 3y ago
    Not at all. Are you saying that abuse is the only (or even primary) thing that a kid could conceivably complain is immoral or unethical? P -> Q != Q -> P
    - geocar 3y ago
      > Not at all. Then stop changing the subject. We are taking about this distressing statement: > Also, I wouldn't cut my parents off for disagreeing with me about morality or ethics, I would expect the same treatment from my kids when they are grown-ups. which certainly sounds like there isn’t a moral or ethical position their parent could have including abuse. I don’t think anyone thinks the only unethical thing in the world is abuse, and I cannot imagine what kind of a person you would have to be to think that I would mean that.