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I'm not talking about the 2014 "election" that happened after the Crimea invasion. I'm talking about before all that. The 2014 coup openly supported by US and

I'm not talking about the 2014 "election" that happened after the Crimea invasion. I'm talking about before all that. The 2014 coup openly supported by US and Europe that overthrew Ukraine's pro-Russian elected President. These things aren't propaganda, they are events that happened. Do you honestly believe that coup was totally organic and the US had no hand in that one (just others)? There is precedent for the US meddling in other countries and even Ukraine in 2004: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/nov/26/ukraine.usa https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/nov/26/ukraine.usa But maybe, just maybe, the US had no hand in these "revolutions", just the Middle East and LATAM countries.

atdrummond 3y ago
You’re not going to have a reasonable discussion on this topic here. The last time I brought up my personal history living and working in Donetsk and the views of my neighbors and friends, I was emailed and texted multiple times by users here to “kill myself”.
- MrOwnPut 3y ago
  [flagged]
- wiseowise 3y ago
  Your comment isn’t adding anything to discussion. If you have anything to say about the topic - you should say it.
  - MrOwnPut 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - wiseowise 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - MrOwnPut 3y ago
        It's really easy to find: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33285734 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33285734 GP probably didn't want to expand because of their previous experience. Either way, you derailed the discussion more than anyone else and contributed the least, don't you think?
bonzini 3y ago
What about Russia trying to kill Yanukovich's opponent (who after the failed poisoning even failed to win, despite confirmed election fraud)? The same Yanukovich that promoted European integration during the 2013-2014 campaign and then reneged on his promises once elected, thus prompting Euromaidan—it was all his doing, no need to involve US and Europe in the supposed "coup".
ithkuil 3y ago
"In November 2013, a series of events started that led to his ousting as president.[10][11][12] Amid economic pressure from Russia,[13] Yanukovych retracted plans to sign an association agreement with the EU, instead choosing to accept a Russian trade deal and loan bailout. This sparked large protests by supporters of European integration, who held a wave of protests dubbed the "Euromaidan" and were met with violent reprisals from authorities. Three months later, the escalating civil unrest led to over 100 deaths[14] and culminated with Yanukovych's flight into exile in Russia.[15] Later that day, Ukrainian parliament voted to remove him from his post and schedule early elections on the grounds that he had withdrawn from his constitutional duties" So, when people don't like what their government is doing it's only because some external powers are to blame for supporting them?
- jnsaff2 3y ago
  If anything the above quote points the "meddling" being done by russia and not the US/West. So they made it happen and when it went wrong they obv point to others. This is so classic. That some fools still fall for it is the amazing part.
wiseowise 3y ago
> I'm not talking about the 2014 "election" that happened after the Crimea invasion. I'm talking about before all that. The 2014 coup openly supported by US and Europe that overthrew Ukraine's pro-Russian elected President. Neither am I, did you even read my comment? It’s a revolution, not a coup, when will you learn already? And I don’t understand the point you’re trying to make. That without US and Europe Euromaidan would never succeed? Or that Euromaidan was orchestrated by US and Europe? > These things aren't propaganda, they are events that happened. Events that happened is Ukrainians CHOSE Europe. Russians CHOSE to invade in 2014 and 2022. > Do you honestly believe that coup was totally organic and the US had no hand in it? Yes. How much do you even know about history of Ukraine?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
skjoldr 3y ago
Imagine seriously thinking that a society that had financed one of the largest militaries in the world on a partially ground-up/volunteer basis for the last nine years couldn't finance an internal revolution against a corrupt twice convicted criminal who infringed on his own campaign promises, the rights of businessmen, and human rights, and who fled to the country that had been threatening Ukraine ever since the 2003 Tuzla incident, while also keeping the Parliament running throughout the events and preserving a Constitutional majority of representatives. Nah, it's all the US, of course. Ukrainians can't do shit in their own country, except breaking the back of the second largest army in the world purely out of spite towards those who want to take away their freedoms.

atdrummond 3y ago

You’re not going to have a reasonable discussion on this topic here. The last time I brought up my personal history living and working in Donetsk and the views of my neighbors and friends, I was emailed and texted multiple times by users here to “kill myself”.

MrOwnPut 3y ago
[flagged]
wiseowise 3y ago
Your comment isn’t adding anything to discussion. If you have anything to say about the topic - you should say it.
- MrOwnPut 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - wiseowise 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - MrOwnPut 3y ago
      It's really easy to find: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33285734 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33285734 GP probably didn't want to expand because of their previous experience. Either way, you derailed the discussion more than anyone else and contributed the least, don't you think?

bonzini 3y ago

What about Russia trying to kill Yanukovich's opponent (who after the failed poisoning even failed to win, despite confirmed election fraud)? The same Yanukovich that promoted European integration during the 2013-2014 campaign and then reneged on his promises once elected, thus prompting Euromaidan—it was all his doing, no need to involve US and Europe in the supposed "coup".

ithkuil 3y ago

"In November 2013, a series of events started that led to his ousting as president.[10][11][12] Amid economic pressure from Russia,[13] Yanukovych retracted plans to sign an association agreement with the EU, instead choosing to accept a Russian trade deal and loan bailout. This sparked large protests by supporters of European integration, who held a wave of protests dubbed the "Euromaidan" and were met with violent reprisals from authorities. Three months later, the escalating civil unrest led to over 100 deaths[14] and culminated with Yanukovych's flight into exile in Russia.[15] Later that day, Ukrainian parliament voted to remove him from his post and schedule early elections on the grounds that he had withdrawn from his constitutional duties" So, when people don't like what their government is doing it's only because some external powers are to blame for supporting them?

jnsaff2 3y ago
If anything the above quote points the "meddling" being done by russia and not the US/West. So they made it happen and when it went wrong they obv point to others. This is so classic. That some fools still fall for it is the amazing part.

wiseowise 3y ago

> I'm not talking about the 2014 "election" that happened after the Crimea invasion. I'm talking about before all that. The 2014 coup openly supported by US and Europe that overthrew Ukraine's pro-Russian elected President. Neither am I, did you even read my comment? It’s a revolution, not a coup, when will you learn already? And I don’t understand the point you’re trying to make. That without US and Europe Euromaidan would never succeed? Or that Euromaidan was orchestrated by US and Europe? > These things aren't propaganda, they are events that happened. Events that happened is Ukrainians CHOSE Europe. Russians CHOSE to invade in 2014 and 2022. > Do you honestly believe that coup was totally organic and the US had no hand in it? Yes. How much do you even know about history of Ukraine?

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

skjoldr 3y ago

Imagine seriously thinking that a society that had financed one of the largest militaries in the world on a partially ground-up/volunteer basis for the last nine years couldn't finance an internal revolution against a corrupt twice convicted criminal who infringed on his own campaign promises, the rights of businessmen, and human rights, and who fled to the country that had been threatening Ukraine ever since the 2003 Tuzla incident, while also keeping the Parliament running throughout the events and preserving a Constitutional majority of representatives. Nah, it's all the US, of course. Ukrainians can't do shit in their own country, except breaking the back of the second largest army in the world purely out of spite towards those who want to take away their freedoms.