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My critique is not “this behavior is acceptable”, and I certainly didn’t describe it as justified. My critique is “the industry is full of bad actors but everyo

My critique is not “this behavior is acceptable”, and I certainly didn’t describe it as justified. My critique is “the industry is full of bad actors but everyone mostly yells about one particular bad actor”, which I think is unproductive.

xbmcuser 3y ago
People complain about the largest and biggest company as they usually define how the industry follows. I think more worrying is your and other people fanboying/ defending with whataboutism instead of just accepting Apple is doing bad shit and so are others but this thread is about an apple product so of course we will complain about Apple here. Do you know of any other company or brand whose new product is talked about so much on hacker news that it self shows Apples clout.
godelski 3y ago
I understand that, and for the most part I actually agree. I think in those situations it is less important to point fingers at specific actors but at the structure and system. Because you're right that it isn't about individuals in those cases, but systematic problems. But there's 2 things I need to say: 1) In a system of bad actors, it is still useful to point fingers and discuss the largest (or small subset) that are doing this. Because 2) Certain actors are driving forces, which others follow. This is Apple. They even brag about having this position. They even have the credentials to do so! They earned that right. They took away the headphone jack. They got us all on ear buds. They got us all on smart phones in the first place. They made podcasts a thing. The aren't the cause of everything, but they are one of the drivers, and definitely the most powerful one. It would be naive to be under the impression that Apple doesn't have significant influence on the entire market. They've done things that resulted in significant backlash, had lots of consumer complaints, and have no become the status quo (e.g. headphone jack). They were the only major company to solder RAM for decades, and people complained about it for just as long. They have weight, they know it, and they know how to use it. That weight allows them to make markets that don't even exist. Because of this, I will point fingers. My complaint with your comment is that you characterize Apple as just another player being pulled along by forces outside their control. But let's be real, Apple was the first $1T company (late 2018), the first $2T company (late 2020), AND the first $3T company (Jan 2022). No one else even comes close. Microsoft is #2 market cap, but has a 12% gap, then Google with a 43% gap. There are only 4 trillion dollar companies (Amazon being the next) and realistically only one builds laptops (MSFT isn't as hardware focused). Apple sets the tone. Yes, the system sucks and is problematic, but that doesn't mean we should ignore the one dictating that system.

xbmcuser 3y ago

People complain about the largest and biggest company as they usually define how the industry follows. I think more worrying is your and other people fanboying/ defending with whataboutism instead of just accepting Apple is doing bad shit and so are others but this thread is about an apple product so of course we will complain about Apple here. Do you know of any other company or brand whose new product is talked about so much on hacker news that it self shows Apples clout.

godelski 3y ago

I understand that, and for the most part I actually agree. I think in those situations it is less important to point fingers at specific actors but at the structure and system. Because you're right that it isn't about individuals in those cases, but systematic problems. But there's 2 things I need to say: 1) In a system of bad actors, it is still useful to point fingers and discuss the largest (or small subset) that are doing this. Because 2) Certain actors are driving forces, which others follow. This is Apple. They even brag about having this position. They even have the credentials to do so! They earned that right. They took away the headphone jack. They got us all on ear buds. They got us all on smart phones in the first place. They made podcasts a thing. The aren't the cause of everything, but they are one of the drivers, and definitely the most powerful one. It would be naive to be under the impression that Apple doesn't have significant influence on the entire market. They've done things that resulted in significant backlash, had lots of consumer complaints, and have no become the status quo (e.g. headphone jack). They were the only major company to solder RAM for decades, and people complained about it for just as long. They have weight, they know it, and they know how to use it. That weight allows them to make markets that don't even exist. Because of this, I will point fingers. My complaint with your comment is that you characterize Apple as just another player being pulled along by forces outside their control. But let's be real, Apple was the first $1T company (late 2018), the first $2T company (late 2020), AND the first $3T company (Jan 2022). No one else even comes close. Microsoft is #2 market cap, but has a 12% gap, then Google with a 43% gap. There are only 4 trillion dollar companies (Amazon being the next) and realistically only one builds laptops (MSFT isn't as hardware focused). Apple sets the tone. Yes, the system sucks and is problematic, but that doesn't mean we should ignore the one dictating that system.