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I don't think all those points seem like "trying very hard", they totally seem to me like the base case, and it's up to the product to rise to the occasion and

I don't think all those points seem like "trying very hard", they totally seem to me like the base case, and it's up to the product to rise to the occasion and show how this is all wrong.

brookst 3y ago
/ˈpredʒədɪs/ Not that it's morally wrong in this case, I just don't see the upside of deciding what it's like now rather than waiting for data.
- sanderjd 3y ago
  We have data: all the marketing materials they released are data. It is perfectly reasonable to look at what they have put out as "these are the use cases we're explicitly highlighting" and find them wanting. Especially because it's not a new class of product. Many of the people bringing criticisms have used past products in this space, and these are their criticisms of those products. This is not some hypothetical thing, VR headsets already exist. This looks like a very solid, probably class leading, iteration on the product, but it's still just an iteration.
  - ETH_start 3y ago
    This is not a VR headset. AR means you can seamlessly interact with your local environment without taking off the headset.
  - brookst 3y ago
    I think that was a lot of words to say some people just enjoy confirmation bias :)
    - sanderjd 3y ago
      I don't think so? It's just reasonable to say "this doesn't look like it solves any of the already known issues with other products in this space". And I think it's weird to respond to that with "you have no idea until you use it!". We do have an idea, because this is not a new thing.
caconym_ 3y ago
Their points aren't really even about the product at all. They start off with (paraphrased) "I can't imagine using this myself" and then launch into a hilariously negative caricature of a hypothetical experience using it. It's heavy on the negatively-associated words and light on actual critical analysis beyond the hype. Like, of course you can't imagine using it! You seem to be really really really convinced it sucks hard. Who would imagine themselves voluntarily having an experience like that? I mean, it doesn't matter. The product will come out either way and I have no stake in it. But this is the internet and we post things.
- calo_star 3y ago
  > a hilariously negative caricature of a hypothetical experience using it. That's what Apple has shown, no?
  - IOT_Apprentice 3y ago
    It appears like that is not the case for many people. You aren't the target market.
- svnt 3y ago
  If you have spent much time with other VR headsets you can absolutely imagine yourself using this, and while this version is excessively negative, I came to essentially the same conclusion. There is a big hole where the experience should be. It’s like they tried to be the next Nike and build a better sneaker except no one actually has a need for face-shoes to begin with.
  - aiisjustanif 3y ago
    Apple is a company is among others in having a history of attempting to create a market.
    - svnt 3y ago
      MP3 players were bad, but everyone listened to music. Smartphones were a convergence that everyone was working on and wanted, and everyone needed a phone, but the experience was lacking. The dominant cool-kid response was not “why?” but “finally” when the iPod and then iPhone dropped. They still have a year — perhaps there is more coming — but this does not have the feel of “finally” for VR/AR that still seems possible, and no one needs VR, yet.
rubicon33 3y ago
How much do you know about VR? I can assure you, as someone who uses a VR headset every day, most of these generalizations are false.
- afterburner 3y ago
  I don't even like wearing over-ear headphones because they make me feel too hot. Assuming the worst for a large headset is not a stretch at all.
- sanderjd 3y ago
  I don't think they're either true or false, I think they're subjective. Some people will like this product, others won't.
- Levitz 3y ago
  Our experience is completely different then I guess? Size changes but sweaty? Yes, you can even grab scuba glasses and humidity and heat will build up normally even if you stand in a living room. Strapped? Obviously. Makes you absent from the place you are at? AR can fix that I hope, but the feeling of being "somewhere else" is absolutely, completely there. A person can't just interact with you while you are using VR, you are in a different space in terms of interaction. I've used VR dozens of times and all of these look like completely legitimate concerns.

I don't think all those points seem like "trying very hard", they totally seem to me like the base case, and it's up to the product to rise to the occasion and show how this is all wrong.

brookst 3y ago

/ˈpredʒədɪs/ Not that it's morally wrong in this case, I just don't see the upside of deciding what it's like now rather than waiting for data.

sanderjd 3y ago
We have data: all the marketing materials they released are data. It is perfectly reasonable to look at what they have put out as "these are the use cases we're explicitly highlighting" and find them wanting. Especially because it's not a new class of product. Many of the people bringing criticisms have used past products in this space, and these are their criticisms of those products. This is not some hypothetical thing, VR headsets already exist. This looks like a very solid, probably class leading, iteration on the product, but it's still just an iteration.
- ETH_start 3y ago
  This is not a VR headset. AR means you can seamlessly interact with your local environment without taking off the headset.
- brookst 3y ago
  I think that was a lot of words to say some people just enjoy confirmation bias :)
  - sanderjd 3y ago
    I don't think so? It's just reasonable to say "this doesn't look like it solves any of the already known issues with other products in this space". And I think it's weird to respond to that with "you have no idea until you use it!". We do have an idea, because this is not a new thing.

caconym_ 3y ago

Their points aren't really even about the product at all. They start off with (paraphrased) "I can't imagine using this myself" and then launch into a hilariously negative caricature of a hypothetical experience using it. It's heavy on the negatively-associated words and light on actual critical analysis beyond the hype. Like, of course you can't imagine using it! You seem to be really really really convinced it sucks hard. Who would imagine themselves voluntarily having an experience like that? I mean, it doesn't matter. The product will come out either way and I have no stake in it. But this is the internet and we post things.

calo_star 3y ago
> a hilariously negative caricature of a hypothetical experience using it. That's what Apple has shown, no?
- IOT_Apprentice 3y ago
  It appears like that is not the case for many people. You aren't the target market.
svnt 3y ago
If you have spent much time with other VR headsets you can absolutely imagine yourself using this, and while this version is excessively negative, I came to essentially the same conclusion. There is a big hole where the experience should be. It’s like they tried to be the next Nike and build a better sneaker except no one actually has a need for face-shoes to begin with.
- aiisjustanif 3y ago
  Apple is a company is among others in having a history of attempting to create a market.
  - svnt 3y ago
    MP3 players were bad, but everyone listened to music. Smartphones were a convergence that everyone was working on and wanted, and everyone needed a phone, but the experience was lacking. The dominant cool-kid response was not “why?” but “finally” when the iPod and then iPhone dropped. They still have a year — perhaps there is more coming — but this does not have the feel of “finally” for VR/AR that still seems possible, and no one needs VR, yet.

rubicon33 3y ago

How much do you know about VR? I can assure you, as someone who uses a VR headset every day, most of these generalizations are false.

afterburner 3y ago
I don't even like wearing over-ear headphones because they make me feel too hot. Assuming the worst for a large headset is not a stretch at all.
sanderjd 3y ago
I don't think they're either true or false, I think they're subjective. Some people will like this product, others won't.
Levitz 3y ago
Our experience is completely different then I guess? Size changes but sweaty? Yes, you can even grab scuba glasses and humidity and heat will build up normally even if you stand in a living room. Strapped? Obviously. Makes you absent from the place you are at? AR can fix that I hope, but the feeling of being "somewhere else" is absolutely, completely there. A person can't just interact with you while you are using VR, you are in a different space in terms of interaction. I've used VR dozens of times and all of these look like completely legitimate concerns.