7 ms·

I'm predicting right now that it's going to have performance problems with that display. While they haven't released exact resolution numbers per eye, 23M would

by slaymaker1907 3y ago

I'm predicting right now that it's going to have performance problems with that display. While they haven't released exact resolution numbers per eye, 23M would give it a slightly higher resolution than the HTC Vive Pro 2, a headset which requires a GPU. While mobile chips have really impressive CPU performance, I don't think they're nearly as competitive in the graphics space. Knowing Apple, they're also not going to support anything else besides Apple Hardware so you won't be able to hook it up to an actual gaming rig like you can with the Meta Quest 2. While this isn't a big deal for a lot of people, Apple is taking a huge risk releasing a very premium product like this without supporting the largest established VR market (gamers).

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czhiddy 3y ago
Roughly double the amount of pixels = "slightly higher resolution"?
- crubier 3y ago
  Sqrt(2) = 1.4 so there are 40% more pixels per inch. It’s not a different order of magnitude.
  - anthonymckay 3y ago
    The Vive Pro 2 has ~12M pixels. This has 23M. That's nearly double. We don't know the FoV so we have no idea was the pixel per degree density is.
    - crubier 3y ago
      Double pixels still means only 41% better pixels per inch, per mm or per degree.
stouset 3y ago
> Apple is taking a huge risk releasing a very premium product like this without supporting the largest established VR market (gamers). This reads like "Apple is taking a huge risk releasing a new smartphone without supporting the largest established market (BlackBerry device users). The VR gaming market is microscopic compared to what Apple is likely aiming for here. They do not give a single flying fuck about this "established market", nor have they for any other market they've entered. The entire Apple ethos is to completely change the narrative for whatever product category they enter. They did this for phones, for bluetooth audio, for watches, and—whether or not they're ultimately successful—you can bet your ass this is their intent for wearable headsets. What's the eventual end goal for these devices? I'm not sure yet, but I'm certain it will become clearer in the coming years. My expectation is they anticipate this will come to replace fixed displays for a huge number of office workers. Maybe not with this first revision, but by gen 3 that's my bet for the market of this device. If you assume it get lighter and comfortable, higher res, and better battery life over the next few iterations it's clearly something that could just be your work machine with a paired bluetooth keyboard.
- hparadiz 3y ago
  VR headsets are very personal from a cleanliness perspective. I would never share one. There's a reason why the padding around the visor is removable and washable.
  - bbor 3y ago
    Most people don't share monitors either. And very very few office workers share laptops, which is what they're suggesting
  - nerdbert 3y ago
    I keep wondering how the demo units at Apple Stores are going to be kept non-vile.
- ztrww 3y ago
  > The VR gaming market is microscopic compared to what Apple is likely aiming for here. They do not give a single flying fuck about this "established market", nor have they for any other market they've entered. The entire Apple ethos is to completely change the narrative for whatever product category they enter. They did this for phones, for bluetooth audio, for watches, and—whether or not they're ultimately successful—you can bet your ass this is their intent for wearable headsets. Apple is also the company which released https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Newton https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Newton back in the day… They turned out to be right at the end but still had to renter the market entirely from scratch after 10 years. So far Apple has been great in “perfecting” products that already exist by doing the right thing at the right time. They weren’t the first or the second to release a smartphone, smart watch, tablet, BT earphones etc. all of those had established markets and somewhat clear use cases Apple “just” streamlined and turned them into something that normal people would actually want to use. It’s seems a bit to early to do that for VR yet. So in a certain way they are in somewhat uncharted territory.
hajile 3y ago
100 games at launch isn’t aiming for gamers? That’s at least decent compared to the quest.
- yurishimo 3y ago
  100 games on Apple Arcade* How many of these will be windowed iOS apps? I assume most of them.
- SkyPuncher 3y ago
  It doesn't matter what games it has if it doesn't have _my_ games. That's really what sets casual gaming devices (Apple TV, iPhone, iPad, etc) apart from actual gaming devices.
zmmmmm 3y ago
> Apple is taking a huge risk Let's contextualise this ... they have so much money in the bank there is literally no way to spend it. This could completely flunk and have zero impact on them. There's no risk here for Apple. Perhaps the question is why they aren't being more adventurous, or pushing this harder by subsidising the gen 1 device to get it off the ground.
- bushbaba 3y ago
  The risk is brand dilution. Apple has a reputation for not launching products that flop
RandallBrown 3y ago
Performance wise, in the Platform State of the Union, they mentioned that they will use eye tracking to choose which parts of the "screen" to render at high resolution. That should help a bit.
jayd16 3y ago
First off, mobile chips are actually quite good at high resolutions (but usually lack bandwidth). But this is an M2. That's not a mobile chip.
kalleboo 3y ago
Yeah it's clear their focus isn't games. There's no way the GPU can push those pixels with the graphical fidelity expected by gamers. But I'm sure it will have no problem pushing the raw pixels as long as you stick to mostly graphical compositing-level graphics like all the productivity/lifestyle stuff they were showing in the demo.

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czhiddy 3y ago

Roughly double the amount of pixels = "slightly higher resolution"?

crubier 3y ago
Sqrt(2) = 1.4 so there are 40% more pixels per inch. It’s not a different order of magnitude.
- anthonymckay 3y ago
  The Vive Pro 2 has ~12M pixels. This has 23M. That's nearly double. We don't know the FoV so we have no idea was the pixel per degree density is.
  - crubier 3y ago
    Double pixels still means only 41% better pixels per inch, per mm or per degree.

stouset 3y ago

> Apple is taking a huge risk releasing a very premium product like this without supporting the largest established VR market (gamers). This reads like "Apple is taking a huge risk releasing a new smartphone without supporting the largest established market (BlackBerry device users). The VR gaming market is microscopic compared to what Apple is likely aiming for here. They do not give a single flying fuck about this "established market", nor have they for any other market they've entered. The entire Apple ethos is to completely change the narrative for whatever product category they enter. They did this for phones, for bluetooth audio, for watches, and—whether or not they're ultimately successful—you can bet your ass this is their intent for wearable headsets. What's the eventual end goal for these devices? I'm not sure yet, but I'm certain it will become clearer in the coming years. My expectation is they anticipate this will come to replace fixed displays for a huge number of office workers. Maybe not with this first revision, but by gen 3 that's my bet for the market of this device. If you assume it get lighter and comfortable, higher res, and better battery life over the next few iterations it's clearly something that could just be your work machine with a paired bluetooth keyboard.

hparadiz 3y ago
VR headsets are very personal from a cleanliness perspective. I would never share one. There's a reason why the padding around the visor is removable and washable.
- bbor 3y ago
  Most people don't share monitors either. And very very few office workers share laptops, which is what they're suggesting
- nerdbert 3y ago
  I keep wondering how the demo units at Apple Stores are going to be kept non-vile.
ztrww 3y ago
> The VR gaming market is microscopic compared to what Apple is likely aiming for here. They do not give a single flying fuck about this "established market", nor have they for any other market they've entered. The entire Apple ethos is to completely change the narrative for whatever product category they enter. They did this for phones, for bluetooth audio, for watches, and—whether or not they're ultimately successful—you can bet your ass this is their intent for wearable headsets. Apple is also the company which released https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Newton https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Newton back in the day… They turned out to be right at the end but still had to renter the market entirely from scratch after 10 years. So far Apple has been great in “perfecting” products that already exist by doing the right thing at the right time. They weren’t the first or the second to release a smartphone, smart watch, tablet, BT earphones etc. all of those had established markets and somewhat clear use cases Apple “just” streamlined and turned them into something that normal people would actually want to use. It’s seems a bit to early to do that for VR yet. So in a certain way they are in somewhat uncharted territory.

hajile 3y ago

100 games at launch isn’t aiming for gamers? That’s at least decent compared to the quest.

yurishimo 3y ago
100 games on Apple Arcade* How many of these will be windowed iOS apps? I assume most of them.
SkyPuncher 3y ago
It doesn't matter what games it has if it doesn't have _my_ games. That's really what sets casual gaming devices (Apple TV, iPhone, iPad, etc) apart from actual gaming devices.

zmmmmm 3y ago

> Apple is taking a huge risk Let's contextualise this ... they have so much money in the bank there is literally no way to spend it. This could completely flunk and have zero impact on them. There's no risk here for Apple. Perhaps the question is why they aren't being more adventurous, or pushing this harder by subsidising the gen 1 device to get it off the ground.

bushbaba 3y ago
The risk is brand dilution. Apple has a reputation for not launching products that flop

RandallBrown 3y ago

Performance wise, in the Platform State of the Union, they mentioned that they will use eye tracking to choose which parts of the "screen" to render at high resolution. That should help a bit.

jayd16 3y ago

First off, mobile chips are actually quite good at high resolutions (but usually lack bandwidth). But this is an M2. That's not a mobile chip.

kalleboo 3y ago

Yeah it's clear their focus isn't games. There's no way the GPU can push those pixels with the graphical fidelity expected by gamers. But I'm sure it will have no problem pushing the raw pixels as long as you stick to mostly graphical compositing-level graphics like all the productivity/lifestyle stuff they were showing in the demo.