7 ms·

Rideshare website ruled illegal

36 points by nickb 18y ago

tptacek 18y ago
This kind of makes sense: if ever there was an industry that needed regulation, it's taxi/car service. PickupPal is basically the Napster of taxi dispatchers. I'm not saying I think it should be outlawed; I'm just saying, it's not crazy that others do think that.
- mseebach 18y ago
  Really? Why? What makes driving a stranger around in your car so much more dangerous than driving your wife and kids around? It's absolutely crazy. The bus company asking the government to protect it from delivering the service that their customers want and need.
  - tptacek 18y ago
    Hmmm. Start here: the "threat" is that people will set up businesses offering rides to people full-time. Those people are, in fact, nothing less than unlicensed cab companies. Now, let's go with: * There's an official definition for what a "fare" is, and cab drivers can't change it in the middle of a trip. * Cab drivers lose their medallions if they drive people around in circles to rack up fares. * Cab drivers lose their medallions if they randomly drop people off halfway to their destination. * The insurance requirements for cab drivers are much more strict than for noncommercial drivers. * Cab drivers are more stringently licensed than normal drivers; in fact, with "P2P car service", there's no incentive to be licensed at all. Reckless driving is a huge problem with urban cab drivers. * Taxis themselves are inspected for safety, and cab companies risk their licensing by fielding cabs with bald tires and fucked up brakes. There are two obvious reasons why you'd want to be careful about using the Internet to route around taxi regulation: * There is no incentive whatsoever for "P2P car services" to follow safety, insurance, and fair business practice rules, because a bad actor can simply re-register their car with a new account. * The P2P system cannibalizes the regulated taxi system, which offer far more consumer protections. That's a start. I don't think it's crazy at all --- though again, I'm not arguing that this Internet service should be outlawed.
    - Prrometheus 18y ago
      The most important aspect of the regulated taxi market to the status quo is that all the fares are set the same, preventing competition on price/quality. Also, medallions are rationed, ensuring that the supply of cabs is always heavily utilized. The demand always outstrips supply on weekend nights and rainy days, but the market cannot adjust to meet it. You could make an argument for the licensing of any profession. In practice, most markets get by with some basic safety regulations and reputation incentives. The licensing only serves to stifle competition and innovation.
      - tptacek 18y ago
        Most rational people probably agree that the medallion caps should be lifted; they were a deliberate attempt to stifle competition during the Depression. So, fix that problem. It's not a strong argument for deregulating taxi service. The regulated taxi service has huge problems as-is without making rules impossible to enforce: * Taxi drivers tend to be unsafe drivers * Taxi drivers tend to rip off their customers * Taxi drivers tend to drive unsafe vehicles There are so many cabs on the road, it's infeasible to address this problem car by car. One thing the medallion system does is to try to inject some accountability into the market, so that there's more to lose for being a scofflaw than just one car. Note also that there's apparently a trend towards leasing medallions on a per-shift basis instead of in long-term leases, and that trend --- which is a step towards deregulation --- correlates with a decline of compliance and and increase in service complaints. Whether or not I believe we should outlaw shadow cab dispatcher services, I think it's easy to make the argument that there's a real risk that they will hurt cab service for most people in the long run. But I mean, as long as they keep them out of New York, Chicago, and San Francisco, I don't really care.
        mseebach 18y ago
        > * Taxi drivers tend to be unsafe drivers > * Taxi drivers tend to drive unsafe vehicles That's for the insurance companies to settle. It's easy to imagine that "regular" liability insurance policies will prohibit commercial transportation of humans in the vehicle. > * Taxi drivers tend to rip off their customers Your "P2P Car Service" rating will plummet if you rip off your customers. By the same measure, eBay and Craigslist should be blatant failures.
jrockway 18y ago
The solution is to move this website somewhere else. Last time I checked, Sealand didn't have car-sharing regulations. Anyway, if people want to do something, you can't stop them from wanting to do it by adding a disclaimer to a website. Sorry, that's not how the world works anymore.
callmeed 18y ago
I wouldn't be surprised if sites like airbedandbreakfast.com get targeted as well.
- vaksel 18y ago
  probably one murder away from being shut down
gills 18y ago
Nothing to see here, just a complaint from a bus charter company trying to protect their turf. It's obviously not fair for us peons to vanpool in private vehicles because some looter isn't getting his cut.
elai 18y ago
Whenever I think of taxi medallions and taxi licensing, I think of a corrupt protectionist cash raking scheme that make taxis way overpriced.
pageman 18y ago
time to put the site as a "hidden service" http://www.torproject.org/docs/tor-hidden-service.html.en http://www.torproject.org/docs/tor-hidden-service.html.en

36 points by nickb 18y ago

This kind of makes sense: if ever there was an industry that needed regulation, it's taxi/car service. PickupPal is basically the Napster of taxi dispatchers. I'm not saying I think it should be outlawed; I'm just saying, it's not crazy that others do think that.

mseebach 18y ago
Really? Why? What makes driving a stranger around in your car so much more dangerous than driving your wife and kids around? It's absolutely crazy. The bus company asking the government to protect it from delivering the service that their customers want and need.
- tptacek 18y ago
  Hmmm. Start here: the "threat" is that people will set up businesses offering rides to people full-time. Those people are, in fact, nothing less than unlicensed cab companies. Now, let's go with: * There's an official definition for what a "fare" is, and cab drivers can't change it in the middle of a trip. * Cab drivers lose their medallions if they drive people around in circles to rack up fares. * Cab drivers lose their medallions if they randomly drop people off halfway to their destination. * The insurance requirements for cab drivers are much more strict than for noncommercial drivers. * Cab drivers are more stringently licensed than normal drivers; in fact, with "P2P car service", there's no incentive to be licensed at all. Reckless driving is a huge problem with urban cab drivers. * Taxis themselves are inspected for safety, and cab companies risk their licensing by fielding cabs with bald tires and fucked up brakes. There are two obvious reasons why you'd want to be careful about using the Internet to route around taxi regulation: * There is no incentive whatsoever for "P2P car services" to follow safety, insurance, and fair business practice rules, because a bad actor can simply re-register their car with a new account. * The P2P system cannibalizes the regulated taxi system, which offer far more consumer protections. That's a start. I don't think it's crazy at all --- though again, I'm not arguing that this Internet service should be outlawed.
  - Prrometheus 18y ago
    The most important aspect of the regulated taxi market to the status quo is that all the fares are set the same, preventing competition on price/quality. Also, medallions are rationed, ensuring that the supply of cabs is always heavily utilized. The demand always outstrips supply on weekend nights and rainy days, but the market cannot adjust to meet it. You could make an argument for the licensing of any profession. In practice, most markets get by with some basic safety regulations and reputation incentives. The licensing only serves to stifle competition and innovation.
    - tptacek 18y ago
      Most rational people probably agree that the medallion caps should be lifted; they were a deliberate attempt to stifle competition during the Depression. So, fix that problem. It's not a strong argument for deregulating taxi service. The regulated taxi service has huge problems as-is without making rules impossible to enforce: * Taxi drivers tend to be unsafe drivers * Taxi drivers tend to rip off their customers * Taxi drivers tend to drive unsafe vehicles There are so many cabs on the road, it's infeasible to address this problem car by car. One thing the medallion system does is to try to inject some accountability into the market, so that there's more to lose for being a scofflaw than just one car. Note also that there's apparently a trend towards leasing medallions on a per-shift basis instead of in long-term leases, and that trend --- which is a step towards deregulation --- correlates with a decline of compliance and and increase in service complaints. Whether or not I believe we should outlaw shadow cab dispatcher services, I think it's easy to make the argument that there's a real risk that they will hurt cab service for most people in the long run. But I mean, as long as they keep them out of New York, Chicago, and San Francisco, I don't really care.
      - mseebach 18y ago
        > * Taxi drivers tend to be unsafe drivers > * Taxi drivers tend to drive unsafe vehicles That's for the insurance companies to settle. It's easy to imagine that "regular" liability insurance policies will prohibit commercial transportation of humans in the vehicle. > * Taxi drivers tend to rip off their customers Your "P2P Car Service" rating will plummet if you rip off your customers. By the same measure, eBay and Craigslist should be blatant failures.

jrockway 18y ago

The solution is to move this website somewhere else. Last time I checked, Sealand didn't have car-sharing regulations. Anyway, if people want to do something, you can't stop them from wanting to do it by adding a disclaimer to a website. Sorry, that's not how the world works anymore.

callmeed 18y ago

I wouldn't be surprised if sites like airbedandbreakfast.com get targeted as well.

vaksel 18y ago
probably one murder away from being shut down

gills 18y ago

Nothing to see here, just a complaint from a bus charter company trying to protect their turf. It's obviously not fair for us peons to vanpool in private vehicles because some looter isn't getting his cut.

elai 18y ago

Whenever I think of taxi medallions and taxi licensing, I think of a corrupt protectionist cash raking scheme that make taxis way overpriced.

pageman 18y ago

time to put the site as a "hidden service" http://www.torproject.org/docs/tor-hidden-service.html.en http://www.torproject.org/docs/tor-hidden-service.html.en