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I can only speak for myself, but the instant I start getting 2k a month for doing nothing I'm quitting. Especially when I look at my paycheck and see how much m

I can only speak for myself, but the instant I start getting 2k a month for doing nothing I'm quitting. Especially when I look at my paycheck and see how much more is being taken in taxes than before. Why should I be one of the suckers? I'll just reduce my expenses and coast as long as I can, which is probably indefinitely since I've been saving for a while. Maybe have a few buddies put our free money together to move in and cover rent/mortgage. And I'm willing to bet a large proportion of my peers will do the same. When all your friends are getting stoned and playing video games all day while you work your ass off, in part to support their lifestyle, it'll be very tempting to join them and tell 'em to pass the bong.

surgical_fire 3y ago
> I can only speak for myself The argument was that "if everyone gets UBI no one will work". Many people choose not to work even without UBI. Many people would still work even with UBI. I probably still would work, mostly because I'm greedy. I like money. It's colorful and buy things. Personal perspective in this discussion is less than useful as it fails to address the reason why UBI is a good thing. It attempts to remove the coercion inherent to the existing system, where people are essentially forced into servitude under threat of homelessness and starvation.
- cheeseomlit 3y ago
  >Many people choose not to work even without UBI. Many people would still work even with UBI. What would the actual difference be though? How many more people would choose not to work if they received UBI? This is just hand-waving that question away with a "more, but it doesn't matter" answer. I understand GP said "if everyone gets UBI no one will work", which was clearly an exaggeration and shouldn't be taken verbatim. But the number of people who would stop working is not 0, nor can you say with any certainty it wouldn't be enough to cause major problems. >Personal perspective in this discussion is less than useful as it fails to address the reason why UBI is a good thing. Ah so personal perspectives are only useful if they reinforce that UBI is a good thing, gotcha >It attempts to remove the coercion inherent to the existing system, where people are essentially forced into servitude under threat of homelessness and starvation. Which system are you referring to? Physical reality? Resources are finite. Every living thing on this planet has to work to survive, with the possible exceptions of pets and zoo animals, neither of which are conditions I aspire to. It's a great testament to our kindness and empathy that we're willing to help those who are unable to provide for themselves, and we should. But until we're able to replicate matter like Star Trek this concept of "I have the inherent right to be provided for indefinitely regardless of circumstance" is nonsensical and destructive
  - surgical_fire 3y ago
    > What would the actual difference be though? How many more people would choose not to work if they received UBI? Why does this matter? I suppose people should be free to choose to work without threat of homelessness and starvation. Do you disagree with this notion? > Which system are you referring to? Physical reality? Resources are finite. The current system that society uses to organize itself in democratic countries where discussion of UBI is a thing, obviously. Resources being finite is true, but meaningless to this discussion. Market forces should cause the cost of things and align incentives So that goods and services are still produced, but without forcing people in a system of coercion. > Ah so personal perspectives are only useful if they reinforce that UBI is a good thing, gotcha This line clearly shows you are unwilling to argue in good faith. I will reply no further. Feel free to have the last word.

surgical_fire 3y ago

> I can only speak for myself The argument was that "if everyone gets UBI no one will work". Many people choose not to work even without UBI. Many people would still work even with UBI. I probably still would work, mostly because I'm greedy. I like money. It's colorful and buy things. Personal perspective in this discussion is less than useful as it fails to address the reason why UBI is a good thing. It attempts to remove the coercion inherent to the existing system, where people are essentially forced into servitude under threat of homelessness and starvation.

cheeseomlit 3y ago
>Many people choose not to work even without UBI. Many people would still work even with UBI. What would the actual difference be though? How many more people would choose not to work if they received UBI? This is just hand-waving that question away with a "more, but it doesn't matter" answer. I understand GP said "if everyone gets UBI no one will work", which was clearly an exaggeration and shouldn't be taken verbatim. But the number of people who would stop working is not 0, nor can you say with any certainty it wouldn't be enough to cause major problems. >Personal perspective in this discussion is less than useful as it fails to address the reason why UBI is a good thing. Ah so personal perspectives are only useful if they reinforce that UBI is a good thing, gotcha >It attempts to remove the coercion inherent to the existing system, where people are essentially forced into servitude under threat of homelessness and starvation. Which system are you referring to? Physical reality? Resources are finite. Every living thing on this planet has to work to survive, with the possible exceptions of pets and zoo animals, neither of which are conditions I aspire to. It's a great testament to our kindness and empathy that we're willing to help those who are unable to provide for themselves, and we should. But until we're able to replicate matter like Star Trek this concept of "I have the inherent right to be provided for indefinitely regardless of circumstance" is nonsensical and destructive
- surgical_fire 3y ago
  > What would the actual difference be though? How many more people would choose not to work if they received UBI? Why does this matter? I suppose people should be free to choose to work without threat of homelessness and starvation. Do you disagree with this notion? > Which system are you referring to? Physical reality? Resources are finite. The current system that society uses to organize itself in democratic countries where discussion of UBI is a thing, obviously. Resources being finite is true, but meaningless to this discussion. Market forces should cause the cost of things and align incentives So that goods and services are still produced, but without forcing people in a system of coercion. > Ah so personal perspectives are only useful if they reinforce that UBI is a good thing, gotcha This line clearly shows you are unwilling to argue in good faith. I will reply no further. Feel free to have the last word.