4 ms·

That's thanks to Apple's courage.

by ChuckNorris89 3y ago

pjmlp 3y ago
Hardly any different from game consoles.
- ChuckNorris89 3y ago
  Macs are sold as general purpose computers, not fixed function consoles designed to only run appstore select games.
  - pjmlp 3y ago
    Hardly any different from Windows then. In case you feel like mentioning Vulkan, it doesn't come in the box, works thanks to plugging into OpenGL ICD driver model and via GPU vendors, not OS vendor, and it isn't supported in all scenarios where DirectX is.
    - ChuckNorris89 3y ago
      >Hardly any different from Windows then. How so?
      - pjmlp 3y ago
        DirectX is the official API, OpenGL and Vulkan only work because of backwards compatibility Microsoft never got rid of ICD ABI they introduced back when OpenGL in Windows NT was a thing. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/display/loading-an-opengl-installable-client-driver https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/d... That is how GPU vendor drivers expose OpenGL and Vulkan, via ICD, they aren't even supported on the Windows SDK, it is up to you to get the header files and libraries to link against the DLLs provided by the GPU vendors. From Windows SDK point of view, OpenGL 1.1 is what is shipped in the box. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/OpenGL/opengl https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/OpenGL/openg... Even the "OpenGL improvements" introduced in Windows 8 rely on DirectX 3D APIs, https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/display/supporting-opengl-enhancements https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/d... There is no support for OpenGL/Vulkan on UWP, XBox, HoloLens, Win32 sandboxes, while OpenGL/Vulkan on WSL are exposed via a DirectX driver wrapper, similar to MoltenVK.
        ChuckNorris89 3y ago
        So very different then Mac then.
        pjmlp 3y ago
        Mac uses own API, Metal. Windows uses own API, DirectX. OpenGL is legacy on Mac. OpenGL relies on a legacy ICD ABI on Windows. Vulkan uses MoltenVK on Mac. Vulkan either uses legacy OpenGL ICD ABI on Windows, or relies on DirectX 12 translation layer, while WSL relies on dxgkrnl, a VM host driver that translates GL/Vulkan into DirectX as well. Pretty much alike.
    - kcb 3y ago
      Microsoft doesn't make GPUs.
      - pjmlp 3y ago
        Yes they do, XBox and Surface devices GPUs are done in collaboration with hardware supplieers.
  - musicale 3y ago
    macOS never really had the ability to run Windows games directly. Either you ran a native macOS version/port of the game, or you ran a compatibility layer like Crossover, or you ran a Windows VM, or you rebooted into Windows using Boot Camp.

That's thanks to Apple's courage.

pjmlp 3y ago

Hardly any different from game consoles.

ChuckNorris89 3y ago
Macs are sold as general purpose computers, not fixed function consoles designed to only run appstore select games.
- pjmlp 3y ago
  Hardly any different from Windows then. In case you feel like mentioning Vulkan, it doesn't come in the box, works thanks to plugging into OpenGL ICD driver model and via GPU vendors, not OS vendor, and it isn't supported in all scenarios where DirectX is.
  - ChuckNorris89 3y ago
    >Hardly any different from Windows then. How so?
    - pjmlp 3y ago
      DirectX is the official API, OpenGL and Vulkan only work because of backwards compatibility Microsoft never got rid of ICD ABI they introduced back when OpenGL in Windows NT was a thing. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/display/loading-an-opengl-installable-client-driver https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/d... That is how GPU vendor drivers expose OpenGL and Vulkan, via ICD, they aren't even supported on the Windows SDK, it is up to you to get the header files and libraries to link against the DLLs provided by the GPU vendors. From Windows SDK point of view, OpenGL 1.1 is what is shipped in the box. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/OpenGL/opengl https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/OpenGL/openg... Even the "OpenGL improvements" introduced in Windows 8 rely on DirectX 3D APIs, https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/display/supporting-opengl-enhancements https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/d... There is no support for OpenGL/Vulkan on UWP, XBox, HoloLens, Win32 sandboxes, while OpenGL/Vulkan on WSL are exposed via a DirectX driver wrapper, similar to MoltenVK.
      - ChuckNorris89 3y ago
        So very different then Mac then.
        pjmlp 3y ago
        Mac uses own API, Metal. Windows uses own API, DirectX. OpenGL is legacy on Mac. OpenGL relies on a legacy ICD ABI on Windows. Vulkan uses MoltenVK on Mac. Vulkan either uses legacy OpenGL ICD ABI on Windows, or relies on DirectX 12 translation layer, while WSL relies on dxgkrnl, a VM host driver that translates GL/Vulkan into DirectX as well. Pretty much alike.
  - kcb 3y ago
    Microsoft doesn't make GPUs.
    - pjmlp 3y ago
      Yes they do, XBox and Surface devices GPUs are done in collaboration with hardware supplieers.
- musicale 3y ago
  macOS never really had the ability to run Windows games directly. Either you ran a native macOS version/port of the game, or you ran a compatibility layer like Crossover, or you ran a Windows VM, or you rebooted into Windows using Boot Camp.