55 ms·

If they cannot convingly explain this mishap, they need to recount the election counts. Austria is not 3rd world dictatorship as Turkey or the USA with such rid

by rurban 3y ago

If they cannot convingly explain this mishap, they need to recount the election counts. Austria is not 3rd world dictatorship as Turkey or the USA with such ridiculities.

catchnear4321 3y ago
> Austria is not 3rd world dictatorship as Turkey or the USA with such ridiculities. we will see.
dontupvoteme 3y ago
Turkey had a runoff election after a close result and a third party splitting the vote. Imagine if that happened in 92 back in the states. If by dictatorship you mean the military coups from its history -- that is an interesting and unique-in-the-world situation where Atatürk granted power to the military to overthrow the government if they strayed too far from his Kemalist ideal of the republic, probably the only coups in human history which the end goal was to force the people to have another election (with the not so subtle threat to not make them have to come back again -- this is the origin of the term "deep state" which became popularized in the US recently) Now there is evidence that the US had a hand in some of the original (pre-2016) coups. I would be wary to oversimplify Turkish politics.
manmal 3y ago
They did a recount. In fact, that’s how they figured out there has been a mistake. Otherwise, nobody would have found out. It’s only ca 600 votes btw, so very easy to recount.
- logifail 3y ago
  > It’s only ca 600 votes btw Yet, in the run up to this (party leadership) election, it was far from clear exactly who the ca 600 voters actually were. None of the candidates apparently knew! The winner is Andreas Babler who is firmly on the left wing of his party. On 24th May he gave two TV interviews. In the first interview, prerecorded and broadbast on the Puls24 channel, he said "I'm a Marxist". In the second (live) interview on another channel later that day he was asked about his statement from earlier on, he answered "I really don't understand the excitement". The interviewer (Armin Wolf) then challenged him about what Marxism means and whether Marxism is something that a majority of Austrian voters could support. At this point Babler backed off. Interviewer: "So you're not a Marxist after all?" Babler: "No, not at all. If you interpret it that way."
  - croisillon 3y ago
    I really don't understand the excitement either
    - logifail 3y ago
      > I really don't understand the excitement either In the latter interview, Wolf challenged Babler, pointing out that Marxism is associated with both "expropriation" and "the dictatorship of the proletariat". To many people, those are pretty wild ideas, although apparently much less so for SPÖ members? Guess time will tell what the Austrian voters at large actually think, their national elections aren't due until Autumn 2024...
      - croisillon 3y ago
        Gregor Gysi is a marxist and I don't know that he scared voters
        logifail 3y ago
        According to bundestag.de, here's how Die Linke/PDS did in the last few decades' elections in Germany: Year Die Linke/PDS 2021 4.9% 2017 9.2% 2013 8.6% 2009 11.9% 2005 8.7% 2002 4.0% 1998 5.1% 1994 4.4% 1990 2.4% I'm not sure what to make of that other than that this party has a fairly limited appeal, and has lost a lot of ground since 2009.
        rurban 3y ago
        Marxists (the KPOe) recently won two major city council elections, first in Graz, then in Salzburg. So it's quite fashionable to call oneself marxist nowadays in Austria, even if he was from the centre-left SPOe, not the true KPOe.
        logifail 3y ago
        > Marxists (the KPOe) recently won two major city council elections, first in Graz, then in Salzburg In the regional (state) elections in Salzburg in April 2023 the results look quite different: ÖVP (centre right) 30.4% FPÖ (further right) 25.7% SPÖ (centre left) 17.9% KPÖ (further left) 11.7% Greens 8.2% Neos 4.2% and so they got a "centre-right plus further-right" coalition government.
jkepler 3y ago
In the US 2020 elections, there are plenty of convincing explanations of the mishaps[1], yet Trump's base couldn't be bothered to take time to read the explanations. I say that based on my conversations with friends who still belive the election was stolen, but when I ask them if they'd read any of the detailed legislative investigations or court proceedings (rather than simply listening to their media echo chambers), they always end the conversation saying no, they haven't. [1] https://misenategopcdn.s3.us-east-1.amazonaws.com/99/doccuments/20210623/SMPO_2020ElectionReport_2.pdf https://misenategopcdn.s3.us-east-1.amazonaws.com/99/doccume... Republican Trump-supporting committee chair McBroom summarized the above report, saying, “Our clear finding is that citizens should be confident the results represent the true results of the ballots cast by the people of Michigan.... There is no evidence presented at this time to prove either significant acts of fraud or that an organized, wide-scale effort to commit fraudulent activity was perpetrated in order to subvert the will of Michigan voters.” McBroom added: “The Committee strongly recommends citizens use a critical eye and ear toward those who have pushed demonstrably false theories for their own personal gain.”
hnbad 3y ago
Fun fact: the US is a 1st world country by definition because the terms "1st world", "2nd world" and "3rd world" originate in the Cold War with "1st world" being US-aligned countries, "2nd world" Soviet-aligned countries and "3rd world" being "unaligned" countries, typically because they were too unimportant/weak/poor in the world economy to be relevant. The term "3rd world" stuck around to simply mean "underdeveloped". That said, as far as I followed the story, the (actual) winning candidate insisted on a thorough investigation and full recount. The (actual) losing candidate immediately accepted his defeat and did not object to the new outcome. As transfers of power go, this one was fairly smooth.

by rurban 3y ago

If they cannot convingly explain this mishap, they need to recount the election counts. Austria is not 3rd world dictatorship as Turkey or the USA with such ridiculities.

catchnear4321 3y ago

> Austria is not 3rd world dictatorship as Turkey or the USA with such ridiculities. we will see.

dontupvoteme 3y ago

Turkey had a runoff election after a close result and a third party splitting the vote. Imagine if that happened in 92 back in the states. If by dictatorship you mean the military coups from its history -- that is an interesting and unique-in-the-world situation where Atatürk granted power to the military to overthrow the government if they strayed too far from his Kemalist ideal of the republic, probably the only coups in human history which the end goal was to force the people to have another election (with the not so subtle threat to not make them have to come back again -- this is the origin of the term "deep state" which became popularized in the US recently) Now there is evidence that the US had a hand in some of the original (pre-2016) coups. I would be wary to oversimplify Turkish politics.

manmal 3y ago

They did a recount. In fact, that’s how they figured out there has been a mistake. Otherwise, nobody would have found out. It’s only ca 600 votes btw, so very easy to recount.

logifail 3y ago
> It’s only ca 600 votes btw Yet, in the run up to this (party leadership) election, it was far from clear exactly who the ca 600 voters actually were. None of the candidates apparently knew! The winner is Andreas Babler who is firmly on the left wing of his party. On 24th May he gave two TV interviews. In the first interview, prerecorded and broadbast on the Puls24 channel, he said "I'm a Marxist". In the second (live) interview on another channel later that day he was asked about his statement from earlier on, he answered "I really don't understand the excitement". The interviewer (Armin Wolf) then challenged him about what Marxism means and whether Marxism is something that a majority of Austrian voters could support. At this point Babler backed off. Interviewer: "So you're not a Marxist after all?" Babler: "No, not at all. If you interpret it that way."
- croisillon 3y ago
  I really don't understand the excitement either
  - logifail 3y ago
    > I really don't understand the excitement either In the latter interview, Wolf challenged Babler, pointing out that Marxism is associated with both "expropriation" and "the dictatorship of the proletariat". To many people, those are pretty wild ideas, although apparently much less so for SPÖ members? Guess time will tell what the Austrian voters at large actually think, their national elections aren't due until Autumn 2024...
    - croisillon 3y ago
      Gregor Gysi is a marxist and I don't know that he scared voters
      - logifail 3y ago
        According to bundestag.de, here's how Die Linke/PDS did in the last few decades' elections in Germany: Year Die Linke/PDS 2021 4.9% 2017 9.2% 2013 8.6% 2009 11.9% 2005 8.7% 2002 4.0% 1998 5.1% 1994 4.4% 1990 2.4% I'm not sure what to make of that other than that this party has a fairly limited appeal, and has lost a lot of ground since 2009.
        rurban 3y ago
        Marxists (the KPOe) recently won two major city council elections, first in Graz, then in Salzburg. So it's quite fashionable to call oneself marxist nowadays in Austria, even if he was from the centre-left SPOe, not the true KPOe.
        logifail 3y ago
        > Marxists (the KPOe) recently won two major city council elections, first in Graz, then in Salzburg In the regional (state) elections in Salzburg in April 2023 the results look quite different: ÖVP (centre right) 30.4% FPÖ (further right) 25.7% SPÖ (centre left) 17.9% KPÖ (further left) 11.7% Greens 8.2% Neos 4.2% and so they got a "centre-right plus further-right" coalition government.

jkepler 3y ago

In the US 2020 elections, there are plenty of convincing explanations of the mishaps[1], yet Trump's base couldn't be bothered to take time to read the explanations. I say that based on my conversations with friends who still belive the election was stolen, but when I ask them if they'd read any of the detailed legislative investigations or court proceedings (rather than simply listening to their media echo chambers), they always end the conversation saying no, they haven't. [1] https://misenategopcdn.s3.us-east-1.amazonaws.com/99/doccuments/20210623/SMPO_2020ElectionReport_2.pdf https://misenategopcdn.s3.us-east-1.amazonaws.com/99/doccume... Republican Trump-supporting committee chair McBroom summarized the above report, saying, “Our clear finding is that citizens should be confident the results represent the true results of the ballots cast by the people of Michigan.... There is no evidence presented at this time to prove either significant acts of fraud or that an organized, wide-scale effort to commit fraudulent activity was perpetrated in order to subvert the will of Michigan voters.” McBroom added: “The Committee strongly recommends citizens use a critical eye and ear toward those who have pushed demonstrably false theories for their own personal gain.”

hnbad 3y ago

Fun fact: the US is a 1st world country by definition because the terms "1st world", "2nd world" and "3rd world" originate in the Cold War with "1st world" being US-aligned countries, "2nd world" Soviet-aligned countries and "3rd world" being "unaligned" countries, typically because they were too unimportant/weak/poor in the world economy to be relevant. The term "3rd world" stuck around to simply mean "underdeveloped". That said, as far as I followed the story, the (actual) winning candidate insisted on a thorough investigation and full recount. The (actual) losing candidate immediately accepted his defeat and did not object to the new outcome. As transfers of power go, this one was fairly smooth.