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Of course you can, there's a thing called research. This narrative is being pushed WITHOUT any significant research behind. So this is only about economics and

by mrfinn 3y ago

Of course you can, there's a thing called research. This narrative is being pushed WITHOUT any significant research behind. So this is only about economics and politics, not science.

blackbear_ 3y ago
How would you design an experiment to definitely prove or disprove that AI is (not) dangerous?
- mrfinn 3y ago
  Well I'm not being paid to do that, but my professional instinct is, like you do with any other software, you set up a sandbox. Pretty sure an AI specialist could have much better ideas than me. What I don't get is how this narrative is being so wildly pushed without any research sustaining it, even just to say "hey we tried to investigate this huge issue, here you can see the great amount of papers we wrote, but we concluded is actually impossibly to establish the risks because etc etc". This is first class BS.
  - blackbear_ 3y ago
    I am not sure how you came to the conclusion that there is no research on this topic. On Google Scholar you can literally find millions of research papers discussing the risks of AI, its ethics, alignment with human values, and so on, for example: - Scherer, Matthew U. "Regulating artificial intelligence systems: Risks, challenges, competencies, and strategies." Harv. JL & Tech. 29 (2015): 353. (934 scholar citations) - Araujo, Theo, et al. "In AI we trust? Perceptions about automated decision-making by artificial intelligence." AI & society 35 (2020): 611-623. (334 scholar citations) - Osoba, Osonde A., and William Welser IV. "An intelligence in our image: The risks of bias and errors in artificial intelligence." Rand Corporation, 2017. (278 scholar citations) - Gabriel, Iason. "Artificial intelligence, values, and alignment." Minds and machines 30.3 (2020): 411-437. (216 scholar citations) - Bryson, Joanna, and Alan Winfield. "Standardizing ethical design for artificial intelligence and autonomous systems." Computer 50.5 (2017): 116-119. (214 scholar citations) - Yu, Han, et al. "Building ethics into artificial intelligence." arXiv preprint arXiv:1812.02953 (2018). (200 scholar citations) - Munoko, Ivy, Helen L. Brown-Liburd, and Miklos Vasarhelyi. "The ethical implications of using artificial intelligence in auditing." Journal of Business Ethics 167 (2020): 209-234. (180 scholar citations) - Christian, Brian. "The alignment problem: Machine learning and human values." WW Norton & Company, 2020. (178 scholar citations) - Manheim, Karl, and Lyric Kaplan. "Artificial intelligence: Risks to privacy and democracy." Yale JL & Tech. 21 (2019): 106. (178 scholar citations) - Russell, Stuart, et al. "Ethics of artificial intelligence." Nature 521.7553 (2015): 415-416. (164 scholar citations) - Risse, Mathias. "Human rights and artificial intelligence: An urgently needed agenda." Hum. Rts. Q. 41 (2019): 1. (135 scholar citations) - Turchin, Alexey, and David Denkenberger. "Classification of global catastrophic risks connected with artificial intelligence." Ai & Society 35.1 (2020): 147-163. (108 scholar citations) - Taylor, Jessica, et al. "Alignment for advanced machine learning systems." Ethics of Artificial Intelligence (2016): 342-382. (95 scholar citations) - Santoni de Sio, Filippo, and Giulio Mecacci. "Four responsibility gaps with artificial intelligence: Why they matter and how to address them." Philosophy & Technology 34 (2021): 1057-1084. (84 scholar citations)
    - mrfinn 3y ago
      Oh c'mon... you know what I'm talking about, I'm not talking about theory and more theory, I'm talking about actual research done on top of an LLM, giving it the apparent freedom to go rogue and see what tries to do then. Specifically on top of OpenAI's GPT, as they the ones carrying this message along the world. This is the type of research I'm talking about. I saw Altman's presentation to the US congress and not a word, about any study, was said.
      - blackbear_ 3y ago
        Well, there are plenty of real-world examples of harms caused by AI-powered systems (https://incidentdatabase.ai https://incidentdatabase.ai). For LLMs in particular, I think it's just too early to have convincing independent research on their harms, but coincidentally this just happened a few days ago: National Eating Disorder Association shuts down A.I. chatbot it planned to use to replaces humans saying it 'may have given' harmful information (https://fortune.com/well/2023/05/31/neda-ai-chatbot-harmful-advice/ https://fortune.com/well/2023/05/31/neda-ai-chatbot-harmful-...)

by mrfinn 3y ago

Of course you can, there's a thing called research. This narrative is being pushed WITHOUT any significant research behind. So this is only about economics and politics, not science.

blackbear_ 3y ago

How would you design an experiment to definitely prove or disprove that AI is (not) dangerous?

mrfinn 3y ago
Well I'm not being paid to do that, but my professional instinct is, like you do with any other software, you set up a sandbox. Pretty sure an AI specialist could have much better ideas than me. What I don't get is how this narrative is being so wildly pushed without any research sustaining it, even just to say "hey we tried to investigate this huge issue, here you can see the great amount of papers we wrote, but we concluded is actually impossibly to establish the risks because etc etc". This is first class BS.
- blackbear_ 3y ago
  I am not sure how you came to the conclusion that there is no research on this topic. On Google Scholar you can literally find millions of research papers discussing the risks of AI, its ethics, alignment with human values, and so on, for example: - Scherer, Matthew U. "Regulating artificial intelligence systems: Risks, challenges, competencies, and strategies." Harv. JL & Tech. 29 (2015): 353. (934 scholar citations) - Araujo, Theo, et al. "In AI we trust? Perceptions about automated decision-making by artificial intelligence." AI & society 35 (2020): 611-623. (334 scholar citations) - Osoba, Osonde A., and William Welser IV. "An intelligence in our image: The risks of bias and errors in artificial intelligence." Rand Corporation, 2017. (278 scholar citations) - Gabriel, Iason. "Artificial intelligence, values, and alignment." Minds and machines 30.3 (2020): 411-437. (216 scholar citations) - Bryson, Joanna, and Alan Winfield. "Standardizing ethical design for artificial intelligence and autonomous systems." Computer 50.5 (2017): 116-119. (214 scholar citations) - Yu, Han, et al. "Building ethics into artificial intelligence." arXiv preprint arXiv:1812.02953 (2018). (200 scholar citations) - Munoko, Ivy, Helen L. Brown-Liburd, and Miklos Vasarhelyi. "The ethical implications of using artificial intelligence in auditing." Journal of Business Ethics 167 (2020): 209-234. (180 scholar citations) - Christian, Brian. "The alignment problem: Machine learning and human values." WW Norton & Company, 2020. (178 scholar citations) - Manheim, Karl, and Lyric Kaplan. "Artificial intelligence: Risks to privacy and democracy." Yale JL & Tech. 21 (2019): 106. (178 scholar citations) - Russell, Stuart, et al. "Ethics of artificial intelligence." Nature 521.7553 (2015): 415-416. (164 scholar citations) - Risse, Mathias. "Human rights and artificial intelligence: An urgently needed agenda." Hum. Rts. Q. 41 (2019): 1. (135 scholar citations) - Turchin, Alexey, and David Denkenberger. "Classification of global catastrophic risks connected with artificial intelligence." Ai & Society 35.1 (2020): 147-163. (108 scholar citations) - Taylor, Jessica, et al. "Alignment for advanced machine learning systems." Ethics of Artificial Intelligence (2016): 342-382. (95 scholar citations) - Santoni de Sio, Filippo, and Giulio Mecacci. "Four responsibility gaps with artificial intelligence: Why they matter and how to address them." Philosophy & Technology 34 (2021): 1057-1084. (84 scholar citations)
  - mrfinn 3y ago
    Oh c'mon... you know what I'm talking about, I'm not talking about theory and more theory, I'm talking about actual research done on top of an LLM, giving it the apparent freedom to go rogue and see what tries to do then. Specifically on top of OpenAI's GPT, as they the ones carrying this message along the world. This is the type of research I'm talking about. I saw Altman's presentation to the US congress and not a word, about any study, was said.
    - blackbear_ 3y ago
      Well, there are plenty of real-world examples of harms caused by AI-powered systems (https://incidentdatabase.ai https://incidentdatabase.ai). For LLMs in particular, I think it's just too early to have convincing independent research on their harms, but coincidentally this just happened a few days ago: National Eating Disorder Association shuts down A.I. chatbot it planned to use to replaces humans saying it 'may have given' harmful information (https://fortune.com/well/2023/05/31/neda-ai-chatbot-harmful-advice/ https://fortune.com/well/2023/05/31/neda-ai-chatbot-harmful-...)