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What is holding back Bitcoin adoption for small online payments? With Bitcoin, a payment is a payment. So this problem would never occur. The two arguments I o

What is holding back Bitcoin adoption for small online payments? With Bitcoin, a payment is a payment. So this problem would never occur. The two arguments I often hear are "losing keys", which would not be a big issue for small amounts, and "fees", but that is avoided via the Lightning Network these days. Is it that every payment is a taxable event, so it is too cumbersome for the customer because of taxes?

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
weird-eye-issue 3y ago
Oh yeah let's re-hash this conversation for the millionth time. Seems really productive.
- JonathanBeuys 3y ago
  Im on HN quite a lot, but have not seen a discussion on what holds Bitcoin over Lightning back for online payments.
  - colesantiago 3y ago
    Lightning is not needed at all and is used by non legitimate actors. LN is also not widely adopted worldwide and doesn't solve any problem that is better than what already exists with credit cards. Especially with no dispute mechanism either. So no thanks to crypto at all.
ceejayoz 3y ago
> What is holding back Bitcoin adoption for small online payments? With Bitcoin, a payment is a payment. So this problem would never occur. Consumers largely don't want a "got scammed? you're fucked, no chargebacks!" payment method.
- JonathanBeuys 3y ago
  Are people really stumbling across random websites and enter their credit card? The AI projects in the link all have some reputation behind them.
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    I'm trying to relate this comment with the one you're replying to, but I'm not seeing how that led to the assumption that people are giving their CC # to random websites. You can make a mistake or get scammed using well-established websites, after all.
darkwizard42 3y ago
It is a big loser for the buyer. What if the seller is fraudulent? Now you are out on the BTC and there is absolutely no protections or regulations on getting that money back. Why wouldn't you just use your credit card with excellent consumer protections provided by your issuer? It doesn't actually solve anything from a KYC or trust perspective, which is at the root of lots of these problems. A good interaction is "I, the buyer, have money, you, the seller trust me that I have the money that I am digitally transacting to you. After the sale is made, the transaction clears, I have less money, you have the money instead." This contract breaks when either side doesn't do their job -- provide the money for the service, provide the service for the money. BTC doesn't solve this for both parties.
- JonathanBeuys 3y ago
  Paying for an escrow service for every small transaction seems darn expensive.
  - mschuster91 3y ago
    Well that's what Paypal (and Stripe) essentially is. As a seller, I don't have to implement PCI compliance, deal with an acquirer bank to process transactions, fraud checks, whatever - I link up the Paypal/Stripe/... account to my shop and that's it. And as a customer, I don't need to trust Joe Random's webshop with my CC details, and I have a reasonably well working customer support when the seller turns out to be shady.
- danlugo92 3y ago
  > excellent C'mon don't be disingenous.
mschuster91 3y ago
> What is holding back Bitcoin adoption for small online payments? With Bitcoin, a payment is a payment. you need easy ways for people to get into Bitcoin. A CC (or in Europe, SEPA direct debit) is easy, customers are already used to this, and it works hassle-free. Meanwhile, Bitcoin? If you're not set up with an exchange already, you need to set up an account, pass through KYC crap which may take hours, and only then you can pay. The only kind of services worth that effort are truly anonymous VPNs and servers or drugs.
JohnFen 3y ago
> What is holding back Bitcoin adoption for small online payments? Bitcoin is pretty high friction, and comes with a bunch of downsides (no recourse for errors/scams, value volatility, etc.) that are important to some people. Not to mention that the cryptocurrency world is generally full of shady actors and many simply don't want to be associated with that.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

weird-eye-issue 3y ago

Oh yeah let's re-hash this conversation for the millionth time. Seems really productive.

JonathanBeuys 3y ago
Im on HN quite a lot, but have not seen a discussion on what holds Bitcoin over Lightning back for online payments.
- colesantiago 3y ago
  Lightning is not needed at all and is used by non legitimate actors. LN is also not widely adopted worldwide and doesn't solve any problem that is better than what already exists with credit cards. Especially with no dispute mechanism either. So no thanks to crypto at all.

ceejayoz 3y ago

> What is holding back Bitcoin adoption for small online payments? With Bitcoin, a payment is a payment. So this problem would never occur. Consumers largely don't want a "got scammed? you're fucked, no chargebacks!" payment method.

JonathanBeuys 3y ago
Are people really stumbling across random websites and enter their credit card? The AI projects in the link all have some reputation behind them.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  I'm trying to relate this comment with the one you're replying to, but I'm not seeing how that led to the assumption that people are giving their CC # to random websites. You can make a mistake or get scammed using well-established websites, after all.

darkwizard42 3y ago

It is a big loser for the buyer. What if the seller is fraudulent? Now you are out on the BTC and there is absolutely no protections or regulations on getting that money back. Why wouldn't you just use your credit card with excellent consumer protections provided by your issuer? It doesn't actually solve anything from a KYC or trust perspective, which is at the root of lots of these problems. A good interaction is "I, the buyer, have money, you, the seller trust me that I have the money that I am digitally transacting to you. After the sale is made, the transaction clears, I have less money, you have the money instead." This contract breaks when either side doesn't do their job -- provide the money for the service, provide the service for the money. BTC doesn't solve this for both parties.

JonathanBeuys 3y ago
Paying for an escrow service for every small transaction seems darn expensive.
- mschuster91 3y ago
  Well that's what Paypal (and Stripe) essentially is. As a seller, I don't have to implement PCI compliance, deal with an acquirer bank to process transactions, fraud checks, whatever - I link up the Paypal/Stripe/... account to my shop and that's it. And as a customer, I don't need to trust Joe Random's webshop with my CC details, and I have a reasonably well working customer support when the seller turns out to be shady.
danlugo92 3y ago
> excellent C'mon don't be disingenous.

mschuster91 3y ago

> What is holding back Bitcoin adoption for small online payments? With Bitcoin, a payment is a payment. you need easy ways for people to get into Bitcoin. A CC (or in Europe, SEPA direct debit) is easy, customers are already used to this, and it works hassle-free. Meanwhile, Bitcoin? If you're not set up with an exchange already, you need to set up an account, pass through KYC crap which may take hours, and only then you can pay. The only kind of services worth that effort are truly anonymous VPNs and servers or drugs.

JohnFen 3y ago

> What is holding back Bitcoin adoption for small online payments? Bitcoin is pretty high friction, and comes with a bunch of downsides (no recourse for errors/scams, value volatility, etc.) that are important to some people. Not to mention that the cryptocurrency world is generally full of shady actors and many simply don't want to be associated with that.