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> Logistics have to be set-up for everything from spares to consumables, that takes time. Not to forget that some of the stuff wasn't properly maintained for q

> Logistics have to be set-up for everything from spares to consumables, that takes time. Not to forget that some of the stuff wasn't properly maintained for quite some time by the donor nations, so they need repairs, maintenance and overhaul. That takes time. This is not representative of what is actually going on. The Russians for the most part have a fairly clean logistics system based on their weapon systems they are employing. Nonstop convoys of Trains and trucks. The Ukrainian logistics system is a debacle because it is a mishmash of Old Soviet and a smorgasboard of Western donations, and many things are being repaired in Poland then shipped back. Becuase the Ukrainian tactics are effectively Russian tactics still, they are using Western vehicles in ways they are not intended to be used (e.g. using a tank as a mobile artillery platform shooting at max range with max charges, wearing out barrels early). Given the tooth to nail ratio (Warfighter to logistics) and given losses already, Ukraine is pretty close to losing generations of men, and a wide depopulation of the country.

agloe_dreams 3y ago
But yet, the war is a slaughterhouse for Russia. It seems like the Russian issue is that they lack any modern weapons systems or skilled labor. They have playbooks for logistics but no way to actually move the line they send men to.
mupuff1234 3y ago
And how do you know what's going on?
jemmyw 3y ago
One thing that Ukraine is not doing is using Russian tactics. A lot of the successes they've had came with using western style C&C. Had Russia invaded for proper in 2014 then yes, but Ukraine undertook an extensive restructure and rebuild since then, obviously limited by their capacity and external support. Well, you did talk more specifically about how they use tanks. Some of their army have had western training. If they are doing that there might be a more contextual reason that applies to Russia too - lack of air support. Western tactics rely a lot on good available air support and air suppression. Russia has more air support than Ukraine but it's still very limited.
_kbh_ 3y ago
If the Russians have such a good logistics system why did there convoy just stop like 30km outside Kyiv in the initial phase of the war proceed to be bombed into dust?.
- OrvalWintermute 3y ago
  There was some serious underestimation of the Western Ukrainian resolve. I’m very surprised they attempted an airfield seizure with such a small force. The airfield seizure debacle led to many others, such as convoy bombings. That strikes me as gross miscalculation, not really logistics
  - _kbh_ 3y ago
    > That strikes me as gross miscalculation, not really logistics The convoy stopped because they likely ran out of fuel and other supplies this is very much a logistics thing.

agloe_dreams 3y ago

But yet, the war is a slaughterhouse for Russia. It seems like the Russian issue is that they lack any modern weapons systems or skilled labor. They have playbooks for logistics but no way to actually move the line they send men to.

mupuff1234 3y ago

And how do you know what's going on?

jemmyw 3y ago

One thing that Ukraine is not doing is using Russian tactics. A lot of the successes they've had came with using western style C&C. Had Russia invaded for proper in 2014 then yes, but Ukraine undertook an extensive restructure and rebuild since then, obviously limited by their capacity and external support. Well, you did talk more specifically about how they use tanks. Some of their army have had western training. If they are doing that there might be a more contextual reason that applies to Russia too - lack of air support. Western tactics rely a lot on good available air support and air suppression. Russia has more air support than Ukraine but it's still very limited.

_kbh_ 3y ago

If the Russians have such a good logistics system why did there convoy just stop like 30km outside Kyiv in the initial phase of the war proceed to be bombed into dust?.

OrvalWintermute 3y ago
There was some serious underestimation of the Western Ukrainian resolve. I’m very surprised they attempted an airfield seizure with such a small force. The airfield seizure debacle led to many others, such as convoy bombings. That strikes me as gross miscalculation, not really logistics
- _kbh_ 3y ago
  > That strikes me as gross miscalculation, not really logistics The convoy stopped because they likely ran out of fuel and other supplies this is very much a logistics thing.