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> US policymakers have repeatedly stated their aim is to remove Putin, and they have plans to break up the country. I have certainly seen assertions by US poli

> US policymakers have repeatedly stated their aim is to remove Putin, and they have plans to break up the country. I have certainly seen assertions by US policymakers that Russia (and the world) would be better off without Putin, but this wording makes it sound like there is a non-fringe group calling for the assassination of Putin. Do you have a source for this? I would also be interested in a source where policymakers have called for the break-up of (post-Soviet) Russia.

OrvalWintermute 3y ago
Happy to accomodate. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-26/joe-biden-calls-for-regime-change-in-moscow-as-he-likens-invasion-to-ww2-horrors?sref=x3IhFPk1 https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-26/joe-biden... https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-calling-regime-change-russia-this-time-it-isnt-gaffe-1694867 https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-calling-regime-change-rus... > would also be interested in a source where policymakers have called for the break-up of (post-Soviet) Russia. Not counting our fomenting via NGOs... Former US Defense Secretary Robert Gates wrote that, “When the Soviet Union was collapsing in late 1991, Dick (Cheney) wanted to see the dismantlement not only of the Soviet Union and the Russian empire but of Russia itself, so it could never again be a threat.” https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2022/02/01/dick-cheney-us-goal-break-up-russia/ https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2022/02/01/dick-cheney-us-go...
- agloe_dreams 3y ago
  Furthermore, this line goes back to WWII. Operation Unthinkable, etc. The Allies debated just keeping the tanks moving further east after Germany.
- bkor 3y ago
  You initially said: >US policymakers have repeatedly stated their aim is to remove Putin, and they have plans to break up the country. > > For the Russians, this is an existential crisis. Russia decided to invade Ukraine, you seem to imply that was partly due them needing Ukraine as buffer. That bit was a Russian talking point, until Putin said it was an excuse. When asked for some evidence you give articles where Biden states that the war is a reason for a regime change in Russia. So Russia invaded and started a war in Ukraine. Then US said the war is a reason for a regime change. But Russia started the war for a reason that the US gave as a consequence of Russia attacking Ukraine. This is illogical.
- derstander 3y ago
  I think we're talking past each other here: I said "but this wording makes it sound like there is a non-fringe group calling for the assassination of Putin. Do you have a source for this?" What I'm seeing from your links is a call for a war crimes trial. Maybe the mistake was mine initially for assuming "removing" a foreign leader had more ominous connotations, but I don't think I'm alone in interpreting it this way (considering what the US has done in other places). The Gates quote is more interesting, albeit a second-hand source (instead of directly from Cheney) and about something that had occurred more than 20 years prior.

OrvalWintermute 3y ago

Happy to accomodate. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-26/joe-biden-calls-for-regime-change-in-moscow-as-he-likens-invasion-to-ww2-horrors?sref=x3IhFPk1 https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-26/joe-biden... https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-calling-regime-change-russia-this-time-it-isnt-gaffe-1694867 https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-calling-regime-change-rus... > would also be interested in a source where policymakers have called for the break-up of (post-Soviet) Russia. Not counting our fomenting via NGOs... Former US Defense Secretary Robert Gates wrote that, “When the Soviet Union was collapsing in late 1991, Dick (Cheney) wanted to see the dismantlement not only of the Soviet Union and the Russian empire but of Russia itself, so it could never again be a threat.” https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2022/02/01/dick-cheney-us-goal-break-up-russia/ https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2022/02/01/dick-cheney-us-go...

agloe_dreams 3y ago
Furthermore, this line goes back to WWII. Operation Unthinkable, etc. The Allies debated just keeping the tanks moving further east after Germany.
bkor 3y ago
You initially said: >US policymakers have repeatedly stated their aim is to remove Putin, and they have plans to break up the country. > > For the Russians, this is an existential crisis. Russia decided to invade Ukraine, you seem to imply that was partly due them needing Ukraine as buffer. That bit was a Russian talking point, until Putin said it was an excuse. When asked for some evidence you give articles where Biden states that the war is a reason for a regime change in Russia. So Russia invaded and started a war in Ukraine. Then US said the war is a reason for a regime change. But Russia started the war for a reason that the US gave as a consequence of Russia attacking Ukraine. This is illogical.
derstander 3y ago
I think we're talking past each other here: I said "but this wording makes it sound like there is a non-fringe group calling for the assassination of Putin. Do you have a source for this?" What I'm seeing from your links is a call for a war crimes trial. Maybe the mistake was mine initially for assuming "removing" a foreign leader had more ominous connotations, but I don't think I'm alone in interpreting it this way (considering what the US has done in other places). The Gates quote is more interesting, albeit a second-hand source (instead of directly from Cheney) and about something that had occurred more than 20 years prior.