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What about defense contractors lobbying governments to favor military solutions to diplomatic ones?

0xDEF 3y ago
What diplomatic solutions? Russia thinks Ukraine is a fake nation that shouldn't exist. Putin re-iterated that claim a week ago by showing one map from 1700 without Ukraine. The only diplomatic solution is for Russia to pull back its forces.
- pastacacioepepe 3y ago
  Honestly, it's not up to you to say. Real diplomacy happens behind the scenes. What politicians say in public is just a facade. That's not even the point anyway. I'm asking about the possibility of military contractors lobbying for more war, as literally any business will lobby for more problems to be solved with the solution they sell. > The only diplomatic solution is for Russia to pull back its forces. Please don't alter the established meaning of words. That's not diplomatic, that's a military victory of Ukraine where Russia is forced to retreat. Additionally the solution you propose comes at the cost of potentially hundred thousands more deaths on both sides, while a cease-fire would come at the cost of some territory for Ukraine. I value life over territory.
  - _kbh_ 3y ago
    > Additionally the solution you propose comes at the cost of potentially hundred thousands more deaths on both sides, while a cease-fire would come at the cost of some territory for Ukraine. I value life over territory. A ceasefire comes at the cost of all Ukrainian lives in the territory that Russia has already invaded. Additionally all a ceasefire does is allow Russia to build up its forces again and invade in the future.
    - pastacacioepepe 3y ago
      > A ceasefire comes at the cost of all Ukrainian lives in the territory that Russia has already invaded. Based on what? These are mostly the ethnical Russian in eastern Ukraine. Anyone who didn't like Russia has long left before the territory could be taken. Many of these people even have relatives in Russia. Now why do you assume Russia will simply exterminate any living being in the territories it just taken? > Additionally all a ceasefire does is allow Russia to build up its forces again and invade in the future. Why do you assume Ukraine has to sit waiting without doing anything in the meantime? Ukraine can build up forces as much as Russia can. Ukraine could join NATO as well. There are countless solutions to your problem that don't require any lives to be sacrificed for it.
      - _kbh_ 3y ago
        > Now why do you assume Russia will simply exterminate any living being in the territories it just taken? Because evidence suggests they do this for kicks sometimes. They have already slaughtered their say through Russian speaking towns why wouldn’t they continue to do this?. > Why do you assume Ukraine has to sit waiting without doing anything in the meantime? Ukraine can build up forces as much as Russia can. Ukraine could join NATO as well. There are countless solutions to your problem that don't require any lives to be sacrificed for it. You cannot join NATO whilst having active territorial disputes and a ceasefire is exactly that.
        pastacacioepepe 3y ago
        > Because evidence suggests they do this for kicks sometimes. They have already slaughtered their say through Russian speaking towns why wouldn’t they continue to do this?. You know you are saying this in bad faith. What should we be saying of the American war crimes in the middle east? You wouldn't come to the conclusion that the USA in general commits war crimes "for kicks" right? War crimes happen during war times. To stop the crimes, end wars. > You cannot join NATO whilst having active territorial disputes and a ceasefire is exactly that. Then call it peace instead of ceasefire.
        3y ago

What diplomatic solutions? Russia thinks Ukraine is a fake nation that shouldn't exist. Putin re-iterated that claim a week ago by showing one map from 1700 without Ukraine. The only diplomatic solution is for Russia to pull back its forces.

pastacacioepepe 3y ago
Honestly, it's not up to you to say. Real diplomacy happens behind the scenes. What politicians say in public is just a facade. That's not even the point anyway. I'm asking about the possibility of military contractors lobbying for more war, as literally any business will lobby for more problems to be solved with the solution they sell. > The only diplomatic solution is for Russia to pull back its forces. Please don't alter the established meaning of words. That's not diplomatic, that's a military victory of Ukraine where Russia is forced to retreat. Additionally the solution you propose comes at the cost of potentially hundred thousands more deaths on both sides, while a cease-fire would come at the cost of some territory for Ukraine. I value life over territory.
- _kbh_ 3y ago
  > Additionally the solution you propose comes at the cost of potentially hundred thousands more deaths on both sides, while a cease-fire would come at the cost of some territory for Ukraine. I value life over territory. A ceasefire comes at the cost of all Ukrainian lives in the territory that Russia has already invaded. Additionally all a ceasefire does is allow Russia to build up its forces again and invade in the future.
  - pastacacioepepe 3y ago
    > A ceasefire comes at the cost of all Ukrainian lives in the territory that Russia has already invaded. Based on what? These are mostly the ethnical Russian in eastern Ukraine. Anyone who didn't like Russia has long left before the territory could be taken. Many of these people even have relatives in Russia. Now why do you assume Russia will simply exterminate any living being in the territories it just taken? > Additionally all a ceasefire does is allow Russia to build up its forces again and invade in the future. Why do you assume Ukraine has to sit waiting without doing anything in the meantime? Ukraine can build up forces as much as Russia can. Ukraine could join NATO as well. There are countless solutions to your problem that don't require any lives to be sacrificed for it.
    - _kbh_ 3y ago
      > Now why do you assume Russia will simply exterminate any living being in the territories it just taken? Because evidence suggests they do this for kicks sometimes. They have already slaughtered their say through Russian speaking towns why wouldn’t they continue to do this?. > Why do you assume Ukraine has to sit waiting without doing anything in the meantime? Ukraine can build up forces as much as Russia can. Ukraine could join NATO as well. There are countless solutions to your problem that don't require any lives to be sacrificed for it. You cannot join NATO whilst having active territorial disputes and a ceasefire is exactly that.
      - pastacacioepepe 3y ago
        > Because evidence suggests they do this for kicks sometimes. They have already slaughtered their say through Russian speaking towns why wouldn’t they continue to do this?. You know you are saying this in bad faith. What should we be saying of the American war crimes in the middle east? You wouldn't come to the conclusion that the USA in general commits war crimes "for kicks" right? War crimes happen during war times. To stop the crimes, end wars. > You cannot join NATO whilst having active territorial disputes and a ceasefire is exactly that. Then call it peace instead of ceasefire.
        3y ago