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Since the media is clearly carrying water for the weapons manufacturers by bringing them on without disclosure of the huge and obvious conflict of interest, I d

Since the media is clearly carrying water for the weapons manufacturers by bringing them on without disclosure of the huge and obvious conflict of interest, I doubt the accuracy of the merits of this conflict that were also presented by them.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
fsloth 3y ago
The war in Ukraine is pretty clear cut for a modern conflict. It's colonial war with a disturbingly high component of genocidal intent of eradicating Ukrainian culture and identity. It's as black and white as wars get.
- zdragnar 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - _kbh_ 3y ago
    > as well as bio-engineering "research" facilities that were ostensibly fronts for weapons manufacturing. What there is no evidence of this in any reality. > "Colonial war" and "genocidal intent" really don't factor into what Russia expected to be a fast annexation of its former territory. They keep talking about how Ukrainians aren't real people or a real country and that they will quote "kill as many Ukrainians" as it takes. Sounds like genocide to me.
    - willcipriano 3y ago
      > What there is no evidence of this in any reality. Here is the state department talking about how they are worried that Russians will acquire the US funded biolabs in Ukraine: https://www.c-span.org/video/?c5005520/senator-rubio-questions-undersecretary-nuland-biolabs-ukraine https://www.c-span.org/video/?c5005520/senator-rubio-questio... Reporting on the US funding via EcoHeath Alliance (same people behind the Wuhan lab, some evidence indicates may be a CIA front): https://expose-news.com/2022/03/18/ukraine-biolabs-and-connections-btw-metabiota-and-ecohealth/ https://expose-news.com/2022/03/18/ukraine-biolabs-and-conne... Seriously question the media you are watching that told you "no evidence" on this.
      - _kbh_ 3y ago
        > Here is the state department talking about how they are worried that Russians will acquire the US funded biolabs in Ukraine: https://www.c-span.org/video/?c5005520/senator-rubio-questio https://www.c-span.org/video/?c5005520/senator-rubio-questio... That is not evidence that they are a front for weapons manufacturing and you know it. The bio labs fake news is just Russian propaganda.
        zdragnar 3y ago
        That's why my post prefaced the weapons bit with "ostensibly". The labs themselves definitely existed. In any case, this is a tangent. The fact that Russia added some extra phony justifications for invading doesn't automatically mean that their primary reason for invading was to commit genocide.
- OrvalWintermute 3y ago
  Are you talking about the stated intent of the Western Ukrainians to kill off the Eastern Muscovite Ukrainians, or the Eastern Ukrainians with the assistance of Russia killing off the Western Ukrainians?
  - fsloth 3y ago
    That’s a Russian invented lie. The conflict is not a civil war.
    - OrvalWintermute 3y ago
      It has been since 2014 and is widely documented as such. https://nationalinterest.org/feature/ukraines-bloody-civil-war-no-end-sight-12509 https://nationalinterest.org/feature/ukraines-bloody-civil-w... https://time.com/3893066/chechens-ukraine-war/ https://time.com/3893066/chechens-ukraine-war/ https://www.fpri.org/article/2019/10/five-years-of-war-in-the-donbas/ https://www.fpri.org/article/2019/10/five-years-of-war-in-th...
      - _kbh_ 3y ago
        > It has been since 2014 and is widely documented as such The war in the Donbas was portrayed as a civil war by Russia but was actually started by and fought largely by Russian soldiers and FSB/GRU members. The former head of the DPR himself admitted this recently.
        OrvalWintermute 3y ago
        > The war in the Donbas was portrayed as a civil war by Russia but was actually started by and fought largely by Russian soldiers and FSB/GRU members. The former head of the DPR himself admitted this recently. Your timeline is incorrect. As someone who has spent a good amount of time in Ukraine, it is clear you are not correctly informed. The Maidan revolution, or Coup d'etat (which the US supported) in Feb of 2014 ended the presidency of Victor Yanokvych that had previously been considered more Pro-kremlin than his opponent. When the revolution happened, Victoria Nuland (US State Department) was captured with US State Dept staff playing kingmakers around which politicos would become the new president. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957 In March of 2014 Ethnic Russians started capturing govt locations in Ethnic Russian territories like Luhansk and Donetsk https://web.archive.org/web/20140412131249/http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/armed-pro-russian-insurgents-in-luhansk-say-they-are-ready-for-police-raid-343167.html https://web.archive.org/web/20140412131249/http://www.kyivpo... Various ethnic Russians were killed immediately after this revolution in 2014 in places like Odessa that protested this https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/02/ukraine-dead-odessa-building-fire https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/02/ukraine-dead-o... The Ukrainian civil war between the Eastern Ukrainians supported by Russia, and the Western Ukrainians supported by the West/NATO, eventually became the Russian invasion of Ukraine around Feb 2022 after talks broke down about Ukraine's membership in NATO which Russia opposed.
rob74 3y ago
I think the merits of the conflict are pretty clear: Russia attacked Ukraine, an independent country, wanting to invade it. Which is something no one in Europe has done since Hitler. If that's not clear, I don't know what is...
- willcipriano 3y ago
  What is unclear why that is a higher priority to the US taxpayer than say clean water in Flint as a single example. This seems like a Europe problem.
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint_water_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint_water_crisis > An extensive lead service pipe replacement effort has been underway since 2016. In early 2017, some officials asserted that the water quality had returned to acceptable levels, but in January 2019, residents and officials expressed doubt about the cleanliness of the water. There were an estimated 2,500 lead service pipes still in place as of April 2019. As of December 8, 2020, fewer than 500 service lines still needed to be inspected. As of July 16, 2021, 27,133 water service lines had been excavated and inspected, resulting in the replacement of 10,059 lead pipes. After $400 million in state and federal spending, Flint has secured a clean water source, distributed filters to all who want them, and laid modern, safe, copper pipes to nearly every home in the city. Politico declared that its water is "just as good as any city's in Michigan." "We fixed it" presumably is part of why Flint is a lower priority than combating Russian wars of expansionary aggression. (The Ukraine war is, incidentally, a fascinatingly cheap way of kneecapping Russia. It's beyond the wildest wet dreams of the Cold Warriors in cost effectiveness.)
    - willcipriano 3y ago
      Ok, so you won't ever complain about a underfunded school or similar ever again? Teachers make plenty, the IRS is well funded, everything is great? Put another way: When the war is over we can expect tax cuts as we don't have any domestic priorities to spend it on right?
sdfghswe 3y ago
The Russian Empire committed genocide in Ukraine and the Soviet Union also committed genocide in Ukraine. Do you dispute these? If not, why is it a stretch that the Russian Federation is committing genocide in Ukraine?

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

fsloth 3y ago

The war in Ukraine is pretty clear cut for a modern conflict. It's colonial war with a disturbingly high component of genocidal intent of eradicating Ukrainian culture and identity. It's as black and white as wars get.

zdragnar 3y ago
[flagged]
- _kbh_ 3y ago
  > as well as bio-engineering "research" facilities that were ostensibly fronts for weapons manufacturing. What there is no evidence of this in any reality. > "Colonial war" and "genocidal intent" really don't factor into what Russia expected to be a fast annexation of its former territory. They keep talking about how Ukrainians aren't real people or a real country and that they will quote "kill as many Ukrainians" as it takes. Sounds like genocide to me.
  - willcipriano 3y ago
    > What there is no evidence of this in any reality. Here is the state department talking about how they are worried that Russians will acquire the US funded biolabs in Ukraine: https://www.c-span.org/video/?c5005520/senator-rubio-questions-undersecretary-nuland-biolabs-ukraine https://www.c-span.org/video/?c5005520/senator-rubio-questio... Reporting on the US funding via EcoHeath Alliance (same people behind the Wuhan lab, some evidence indicates may be a CIA front): https://expose-news.com/2022/03/18/ukraine-biolabs-and-connections-btw-metabiota-and-ecohealth/ https://expose-news.com/2022/03/18/ukraine-biolabs-and-conne... Seriously question the media you are watching that told you "no evidence" on this.
    - _kbh_ 3y ago
      > Here is the state department talking about how they are worried that Russians will acquire the US funded biolabs in Ukraine: https://www.c-span.org/video/?c5005520/senator-rubio-questio https://www.c-span.org/video/?c5005520/senator-rubio-questio... That is not evidence that they are a front for weapons manufacturing and you know it. The bio labs fake news is just Russian propaganda.
      - zdragnar 3y ago
        That's why my post prefaced the weapons bit with "ostensibly". The labs themselves definitely existed. In any case, this is a tangent. The fact that Russia added some extra phony justifications for invading doesn't automatically mean that their primary reason for invading was to commit genocide.
OrvalWintermute 3y ago
Are you talking about the stated intent of the Western Ukrainians to kill off the Eastern Muscovite Ukrainians, or the Eastern Ukrainians with the assistance of Russia killing off the Western Ukrainians?
- fsloth 3y ago
  That’s a Russian invented lie. The conflict is not a civil war.
  - OrvalWintermute 3y ago
    It has been since 2014 and is widely documented as such. https://nationalinterest.org/feature/ukraines-bloody-civil-war-no-end-sight-12509 https://nationalinterest.org/feature/ukraines-bloody-civil-w... https://time.com/3893066/chechens-ukraine-war/ https://time.com/3893066/chechens-ukraine-war/ https://www.fpri.org/article/2019/10/five-years-of-war-in-the-donbas/ https://www.fpri.org/article/2019/10/five-years-of-war-in-th...
    - _kbh_ 3y ago
      > It has been since 2014 and is widely documented as such The war in the Donbas was portrayed as a civil war by Russia but was actually started by and fought largely by Russian soldiers and FSB/GRU members. The former head of the DPR himself admitted this recently.
      - OrvalWintermute 3y ago
        > The war in the Donbas was portrayed as a civil war by Russia but was actually started by and fought largely by Russian soldiers and FSB/GRU members. The former head of the DPR himself admitted this recently. Your timeline is incorrect. As someone who has spent a good amount of time in Ukraine, it is clear you are not correctly informed. The Maidan revolution, or Coup d'etat (which the US supported) in Feb of 2014 ended the presidency of Victor Yanokvych that had previously been considered more Pro-kremlin than his opponent. When the revolution happened, Victoria Nuland (US State Department) was captured with US State Dept staff playing kingmakers around which politicos would become the new president. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957 In March of 2014 Ethnic Russians started capturing govt locations in Ethnic Russian territories like Luhansk and Donetsk https://web.archive.org/web/20140412131249/http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/armed-pro-russian-insurgents-in-luhansk-say-they-are-ready-for-police-raid-343167.html https://web.archive.org/web/20140412131249/http://www.kyivpo... Various ethnic Russians were killed immediately after this revolution in 2014 in places like Odessa that protested this https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/02/ukraine-dead-odessa-building-fire https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/02/ukraine-dead-o... The Ukrainian civil war between the Eastern Ukrainians supported by Russia, and the Western Ukrainians supported by the West/NATO, eventually became the Russian invasion of Ukraine around Feb 2022 after talks broke down about Ukraine's membership in NATO which Russia opposed.

rob74 3y ago

I think the merits of the conflict are pretty clear: Russia attacked Ukraine, an independent country, wanting to invade it. Which is something no one in Europe has done since Hitler. If that's not clear, I don't know what is...

willcipriano 3y ago
What is unclear why that is a higher priority to the US taxpayer than say clean water in Flint as a single example. This seems like a Europe problem.
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint_water_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint_water_crisis > An extensive lead service pipe replacement effort has been underway since 2016. In early 2017, some officials asserted that the water quality had returned to acceptable levels, but in January 2019, residents and officials expressed doubt about the cleanliness of the water. There were an estimated 2,500 lead service pipes still in place as of April 2019. As of December 8, 2020, fewer than 500 service lines still needed to be inspected. As of July 16, 2021, 27,133 water service lines had been excavated and inspected, resulting in the replacement of 10,059 lead pipes. After $400 million in state and federal spending, Flint has secured a clean water source, distributed filters to all who want them, and laid modern, safe, copper pipes to nearly every home in the city. Politico declared that its water is "just as good as any city's in Michigan." "We fixed it" presumably is part of why Flint is a lower priority than combating Russian wars of expansionary aggression. (The Ukraine war is, incidentally, a fascinatingly cheap way of kneecapping Russia. It's beyond the wildest wet dreams of the Cold Warriors in cost effectiveness.)
  - willcipriano 3y ago
    Ok, so you won't ever complain about a underfunded school or similar ever again? Teachers make plenty, the IRS is well funded, everything is great? Put another way: When the war is over we can expect tax cuts as we don't have any domestic priorities to spend it on right?

sdfghswe 3y ago

The Russian Empire committed genocide in Ukraine and the Soviet Union also committed genocide in Ukraine. Do you dispute these? If not, why is it a stretch that the Russian Federation is committing genocide in Ukraine?