3 ms·

What is there possibly for a bunch of employees who have lived with status quo for so many years all of a sudden want to change? It is typically new employees

What is there possibly for a bunch of employees who have lived with status quo for so many years all of a sudden want to change? It is typically new employees who come in (from elsewhere?) that feel like changing everything around them. And then either they get those changes, or get comfortable with the things that exist, or leave. Edit: Reasons for unions historically have been better working conditions and better wages, but those were for labor unions. Desk jockeys had different motivations for workplace changes, like better treatment of their work efforts, or more meaningful work hours. Better Wages are not it.

delfinom 3y ago
Or you know, instead of crying about change like you are. Existing employees finally cracked. The STM part of STEM has been seriously underpaid and meager living for years. All of that is coming home to roost with inflation and cost of living spiraling out of control.
- FredPret 3y ago
  Underpayment would lead to less inflation if anything.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - MaKey 3y ago
    [citation needed] Inflation might not be driven by wages but by company profits: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/feb/24/an-economic-fairytale-australias-inflation-being-driven-by-company-profits-and-not-wages-analysis-finds https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/feb/24/an-economic...
    - nightski 3y ago
      Where do you think company profits come from if not from customers?
      - avgcorrection 3y ago
        Some central banks take measures in order to reduce the spending of consumers in order to calm down inflation. Which means less money for customers. So maybe it makes sense?
    - FredPret 3y ago
      You know your own logic can beat that of others right? Citations are just links to places where other people wrote down their logic and aren't magic fairy dust that'll make an argument true. People geting paid more is inflationary. People producing more output is deflationary. We need lots of both. Company profits come from things being produced and then bought. So when profits are paid out to owners and employees as salaries, dividends, and other mechanisms, it gets filed under "people getting paid". Now my main point is that if S, T and M have been underpaid vs their true output, they should get more.
- gowings97 3y ago
  "The STM part of STEM has been seriously underpaid and meager living for years." Based on what?
- foooorsyth 3y ago
  The E part of STEM is typically the commercial application of STM, so why would that be a surprise? This is the nature of research: most efforts will be pretty useless, and even the useful ones will need significant additional focus, effort, investment, and labor to create a viable commercial product.
  - rfrey 3y ago
    The assumption that only commercialization efforts are deserving of rewards, and the labour to discover and make viable the things that are being sold are not deserving of rewards, is one that needs reflection.
kashunstva 3y ago
Sure, they may have lived with the status quo, but the external environment, dominated by housing costs has in now way been status quo. I imagine that the delta is what is motivating action.
einpoklum 3y ago
> but those were for labor unions. Desk jockeys had different motivations... Desk labor is labor. And us desk jockeys most definitely need to unionize to improve and/or prevent deterioration of our working conditions and wages (and when I say "our wages" I don't mean just the star developers, I mean everyone). Similarly, all laborers, at the desk and at the assembly line, strive for better treatment of our work efforts, the ability to perform meaningful and less alienated work, etc.
matthewowen 3y ago
Are you sure you read the article closely enough? These are early career researchers: grad students and postdocs. These are generally roles someone holds for no more than 6 years, often less. They _are_ all new employees.
- nashashmi 3y ago
  Yes they are all new employees. Funny either I read it wrong or the headline changed. I thought it said NIH employees who had been with the firm for long time.

delfinom 3y ago

Or you know, instead of crying about change like you are. Existing employees finally cracked. The STM part of STEM has been seriously underpaid and meager living for years. All of that is coming home to roost with inflation and cost of living spiraling out of control.

FredPret 3y ago
Underpayment would lead to less inflation if anything.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- MaKey 3y ago
  [citation needed] Inflation might not be driven by wages but by company profits: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/feb/24/an-economic-fairytale-australias-inflation-being-driven-by-company-profits-and-not-wages-analysis-finds https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/feb/24/an-economic...
  - nightski 3y ago
    Where do you think company profits come from if not from customers?
    - avgcorrection 3y ago
      Some central banks take measures in order to reduce the spending of consumers in order to calm down inflation. Which means less money for customers. So maybe it makes sense?
  - FredPret 3y ago
    You know your own logic can beat that of others right? Citations are just links to places where other people wrote down their logic and aren't magic fairy dust that'll make an argument true. People geting paid more is inflationary. People producing more output is deflationary. We need lots of both. Company profits come from things being produced and then bought. So when profits are paid out to owners and employees as salaries, dividends, and other mechanisms, it gets filed under "people getting paid". Now my main point is that if S, T and M have been underpaid vs their true output, they should get more.
gowings97 3y ago
"The STM part of STEM has been seriously underpaid and meager living for years." Based on what?
foooorsyth 3y ago
The E part of STEM is typically the commercial application of STM, so why would that be a surprise? This is the nature of research: most efforts will be pretty useless, and even the useful ones will need significant additional focus, effort, investment, and labor to create a viable commercial product.
- rfrey 3y ago
  The assumption that only commercialization efforts are deserving of rewards, and the labour to discover and make viable the things that are being sold are not deserving of rewards, is one that needs reflection.

kashunstva 3y ago

Sure, they may have lived with the status quo, but the external environment, dominated by housing costs has in now way been status quo. I imagine that the delta is what is motivating action.

einpoklum 3y ago

> but those were for labor unions. Desk jockeys had different motivations... Desk labor is labor. And us desk jockeys most definitely need to unionize to improve and/or prevent deterioration of our working conditions and wages (and when I say "our wages" I don't mean just the star developers, I mean everyone). Similarly, all laborers, at the desk and at the assembly line, strive for better treatment of our work efforts, the ability to perform meaningful and less alienated work, etc.

matthewowen 3y ago

Are you sure you read the article closely enough? These are early career researchers: grad students and postdocs. These are generally roles someone holds for no more than 6 years, often less. They _are_ all new employees.

nashashmi 3y ago
Yes they are all new employees. Funny either I read it wrong or the headline changed. I thought it said NIH employees who had been with the firm for long time.