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> The biggest problem with HomeAssistant, however, is its really overengineered setup for running on mini computers like the Raspberry Pi, which was my goal. F

> The biggest problem with HomeAssistant, however, is its really overengineered setup for running on mini computers like the Raspberry Pi, which was my goal. False, i ran mine on rpi for 2 years now with many sensors. Zero issues and not even close to maxing out the pi. > I have a strong aversion to Python due to its horrendous package management history (we use dozens of languages at work, guess which language is the only one that causes build issues all the time?). It’s a nice language, but for things like home automation, having build/dependencies problems is the absolute last thing I need. Not sound reasoning imo, this is mangable if you know what you're doing. Clearly, HA doesnt have any problems related to this version management.

acidburnNSA 3y ago
Agreed, package management is fine. Just make a home assistant virtual environment and you're done. python -m venv /opt/venvs/hass source /opt/venvs/hass/bin/activate pip install homeassistant boom done.
- oynqr 3y ago
  Great, now tell me how to maintain it.
  - akx 3y ago
    `pip install -U homeassistant` when there's a new version.
    - oynqr 3y ago
      If pip was a good package manager, this would be the correct answer. Sadly, pip is crap.
      - akx 3y ago
        Care to expand on that, or is that just the usual FUD about old versions of pip?
lelanthran 3y ago
> Not sound reasoning imo, this is mangable if you know what you're doing. I dunno; if the author is correct about this bit: > The recommended way to run it is with a fleet of Docker containers (and they even tell you to install their own Linux distro to make sure all the large amounts of software you’ll need is managed more easily). then, yeah, it's horribly over-engineered. I tried finding docs to understand how to create a plugin to support a new protocol and didn't really find anything. I also got turned off by the outright obstinacy of the support forum (example: https://community.home-assistant.io/t/mosquitto-broker-announcing-advertising-mqtt-service-via-mdns/343190/9 https://community.home-assistant.io/t/mosquitto-broker-annou...) Home assistant is not what I have in mind when I think "perfect for the job". It really is over-engineered, with (apparently) great plugin support, but very little in the way of docs.
- m00x 3y ago
  It's really not that hard to run. I run mine on an Intel NUC by just running a docker container managed by systemd. It took me 2 min to set up, and 10 to configure.
  - ThatMedicIsASpy 3y ago
    And then you try to add an MQTT broker and learn you cannot install addons because you are on docker. Now you have to tinker on your own and add more docker containers.
    - lelanthran 3y ago
      Docker adds a high level of complexity for non-technical people. If you're trying to mass market something (like Home Assistant) to non-technical people, containers are a dealbreaker. OTOH, if you are selling something to technical people, containers are a feature.
    - m00x 3y ago
      You can do the same with EMQX or Mosquitto. I have both my broker and HA being started at boot by systemd.
jve 3y ago
> first, it’s based on Python. I have a strong aversion to Python Yeah, that's how we engineers feel - if it ain't my eavorite/elegant language, BYO... Program :) > overengineered Yeah, I also ran off of RPI4 for a few years, along with MQTT, Nextcloud (+SQL), photoprism, bitwarden and whatever needed for proxying via nginx. I only migrated to better hardware because I wanted to browse my pictures faster, photoprism solved that even on RPI, but I wanted faster indexing and offline face recognition where RPI turned out to have too little RAM. On normal load, my RPI would still have room for other containers. Having HA within a container was a feature - not too much to configure and everything is isolated, so I can still run other services from RPI. And easy upgrades.

acidburnNSA 3y ago

Agreed, package management is fine. Just make a home assistant virtual environment and you're done. python -m venv /opt/venvs/hass source /opt/venvs/hass/bin/activate pip install homeassistant boom done.

oynqr 3y ago
Great, now tell me how to maintain it.
- akx 3y ago
  `pip install -U homeassistant` when there's a new version.
  - oynqr 3y ago
    If pip was a good package manager, this would be the correct answer. Sadly, pip is crap.
    - akx 3y ago
      Care to expand on that, or is that just the usual FUD about old versions of pip?

lelanthran 3y ago

> Not sound reasoning imo, this is mangable if you know what you're doing. I dunno; if the author is correct about this bit: > The recommended way to run it is with a fleet of Docker containers (and they even tell you to install their own Linux distro to make sure all the large amounts of software you’ll need is managed more easily). then, yeah, it's horribly over-engineered. I tried finding docs to understand how to create a plugin to support a new protocol and didn't really find anything. I also got turned off by the outright obstinacy of the support forum (example: https://community.home-assistant.io/t/mosquitto-broker-announcing-advertising-mqtt-service-via-mdns/343190/9 https://community.home-assistant.io/t/mosquitto-broker-annou...) Home assistant is not what I have in mind when I think "perfect for the job". It really is over-engineered, with (apparently) great plugin support, but very little in the way of docs.

m00x 3y ago
It's really not that hard to run. I run mine on an Intel NUC by just running a docker container managed by systemd. It took me 2 min to set up, and 10 to configure.
- ThatMedicIsASpy 3y ago
  And then you try to add an MQTT broker and learn you cannot install addons because you are on docker. Now you have to tinker on your own and add more docker containers.
  - lelanthran 3y ago
    Docker adds a high level of complexity for non-technical people. If you're trying to mass market something (like Home Assistant) to non-technical people, containers are a dealbreaker. OTOH, if you are selling something to technical people, containers are a feature.
  - m00x 3y ago
    You can do the same with EMQX or Mosquitto. I have both my broker and HA being started at boot by systemd.

jve 3y ago

> first, it’s based on Python. I have a strong aversion to Python Yeah, that's how we engineers feel - if it ain't my eavorite/elegant language, BYO... Program :) > overengineered Yeah, I also ran off of RPI4 for a few years, along with MQTT, Nextcloud (+SQL), photoprism, bitwarden and whatever needed for proxying via nginx. I only migrated to better hardware because I wanted to browse my pictures faster, photoprism solved that even on RPI, but I wanted faster indexing and offline face recognition where RPI turned out to have too little RAM. On normal load, my RPI would still have room for other containers. Having HA within a container was a feature - not too much to configure and everything is isolated, so I can still run other services from RPI. And easy upgrades.