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No one knows what happens when you die. With this premise, we are equally without evidence if I believe in an afterlife and you do not. I think every person cr

No one knows what happens when you die. With this premise, we are equally without evidence if I believe in an afterlife and you do not. I think every person creates their own life philosophy that they live and believe in. If someone creates one that believes life is pointless, there is no God, and life after death is a myth, I think they have formulated a sort of nihilism which also permeates how they act in the world. As society becomes less hopeful and believes in less, the cynicism creeps in. The system is corrupt, nothing matters anyway, and I may as well be dead as I am alive. Why not take this suicide pill my state-employed doctor prescribed me?

anonymouskimmer 3y ago
> If someone creates one that believes life is pointless, there is no God, and life after death is a myth, I think they have formulated a sort of nihilism which also permeates how they act in the world. There's a corresponding religious nihilism, as seen in "magic words" salvation and a belief that deities are powerful and directly intervene in the maintenance of the world. In Canada, at least, "medical assistance in dying" is actual euthanasia, with far over 99.9% of those seeking death through physician-prescribed drugs having the provider inject them with the drugs. I do wonder how many of them are Christians who are legalistically trying to avoid the Christian prohibition of suicide this way.
- User23 3y ago
  > I do wonder how many of them are Christians who are legalistically trying to avoid the Christian prohibition of suicide this way. While legalism isn't generally a good look for morality, there really are some situations where the nuance matters. In this case it's a matter of intent and what can be foreseen. The "loophole" for Christians or anyone else who is suffering extremely is pain management. Drugs may be licitly provided in any amount necessary for that pain management. If the amount of the drug necessary for pain management will foreseeably cause death, it's still not suicide because the intent is not to euthanize, but to manage pain. This shouldn't sound so strange, because the secular legal system also takes intent into account. On the other hand when the intent is to kill rather than to care, then yes it's not healthcare it's murder or suicide. Similarly, it's licit to discontinue life preserving interventions when those interventions are otherwise intolerable.
  - anonymouskimmer 3y ago
    I agree. Even in Christianity there are noble suicides when the suicide is performed to do a good.
    - sparrish 3y ago
      Please provide some examples.
      - anonymouskimmer 3y ago
        Any time someone knowingly, and with aforethought became a martyr. When death is inevitable but the sacrifice of one's life can save others (or is otherwise to the good). SPOILER FOR THE POSEIDON ADVENTURE: In the movie The Poseidon Adventure one of the survivors sacrifices himself as otherwise they all would have died. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Poseidon_Adventure_(1972_film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Poseidon_Adventure_(1972_f... > A ruptured pipe releases steam, blocking their escape. Scott rants at God for the survivors' deaths as he leaps across a pool of flaming oil, grabbing onto the burning-hot valve wheel to shut down the steam. Scott tells Rogo to lead the group on before falling to his death. You can argue that instances like this aren't suicide, but this is only true because the deaths were good deaths for a purpose. You may say they aren't suicide, but I'd call them noble suicides.
shortcake27 3y ago
> If someone creates one that believes life is pointless, there is no God, and life after death is a myth, I think they have formulated a sort of nihilism which also permeates how they act in the world. Yet that is not what we see at all. How many wars have been fought over religion? How many political parties use religion to oppress others? A belief in God does not equate to being a good person; it’s quite often the athiests doing good in the world.
- fsckboy 3y ago
  > it’s quite often the athiests doing good in the world. you just moved that goalpost awfully far in the other direction, and still it's not clear where it is. "Quite often" is completely undefined as to just how often; just be sure to note how many heinous crimes are committed by people who believe in nothing but their own self interest; in other words, by atheists. (source: am atheist) > How many wars have been fought over religion? religions reflect people's historical attempts to struggle with ethical issues, and the attempts have been as earnest as people can be. People have fought with one another since caveman times, it's ridiculous to blame our violent primate tendencies on religion. Has religion taken upon itself the goal of getting people to behave better? yes. Has any religion succeeded as much as we like? no. In whose hands has the implementation of ethics been left? people. Is that a failure of religion or a failure of people? people.

anonymouskimmer 3y ago

> If someone creates one that believes life is pointless, there is no God, and life after death is a myth, I think they have formulated a sort of nihilism which also permeates how they act in the world. There's a corresponding religious nihilism, as seen in "magic words" salvation and a belief that deities are powerful and directly intervene in the maintenance of the world. In Canada, at least, "medical assistance in dying" is actual euthanasia, with far over 99.9% of those seeking death through physician-prescribed drugs having the provider inject them with the drugs. I do wonder how many of them are Christians who are legalistically trying to avoid the Christian prohibition of suicide this way.

User23 3y ago
> I do wonder how many of them are Christians who are legalistically trying to avoid the Christian prohibition of suicide this way. While legalism isn't generally a good look for morality, there really are some situations where the nuance matters. In this case it's a matter of intent and what can be foreseen. The "loophole" for Christians or anyone else who is suffering extremely is pain management. Drugs may be licitly provided in any amount necessary for that pain management. If the amount of the drug necessary for pain management will foreseeably cause death, it's still not suicide because the intent is not to euthanize, but to manage pain. This shouldn't sound so strange, because the secular legal system also takes intent into account. On the other hand when the intent is to kill rather than to care, then yes it's not healthcare it's murder or suicide. Similarly, it's licit to discontinue life preserving interventions when those interventions are otherwise intolerable.
- anonymouskimmer 3y ago
  I agree. Even in Christianity there are noble suicides when the suicide is performed to do a good.
  - sparrish 3y ago
    Please provide some examples.
    - anonymouskimmer 3y ago
      Any time someone knowingly, and with aforethought became a martyr. When death is inevitable but the sacrifice of one's life can save others (or is otherwise to the good). SPOILER FOR THE POSEIDON ADVENTURE: In the movie The Poseidon Adventure one of the survivors sacrifices himself as otherwise they all would have died. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Poseidon_Adventure_(1972_film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Poseidon_Adventure_(1972_f... > A ruptured pipe releases steam, blocking their escape. Scott rants at God for the survivors' deaths as he leaps across a pool of flaming oil, grabbing onto the burning-hot valve wheel to shut down the steam. Scott tells Rogo to lead the group on before falling to his death. You can argue that instances like this aren't suicide, but this is only true because the deaths were good deaths for a purpose. You may say they aren't suicide, but I'd call them noble suicides.

shortcake27 3y ago

> If someone creates one that believes life is pointless, there is no God, and life after death is a myth, I think they have formulated a sort of nihilism which also permeates how they act in the world. Yet that is not what we see at all. How many wars have been fought over religion? How many political parties use religion to oppress others? A belief in God does not equate to being a good person; it’s quite often the athiests doing good in the world.

fsckboy 3y ago
> it’s quite often the athiests doing good in the world. you just moved that goalpost awfully far in the other direction, and still it's not clear where it is. "Quite often" is completely undefined as to just how often; just be sure to note how many heinous crimes are committed by people who believe in nothing but their own self interest; in other words, by atheists. (source: am atheist) > How many wars have been fought over religion? religions reflect people's historical attempts to struggle with ethical issues, and the attempts have been as earnest as people can be. People have fought with one another since caveman times, it's ridiculous to blame our violent primate tendencies on religion. Has religion taken upon itself the goal of getting people to behave better? yes. Has any religion succeeded as much as we like? no. In whose hands has the implementation of ethics been left? people. Is that a failure of religion or a failure of people? people.