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> There may be many Teslas, but there is only one of your Tesla. That isn’t a “natural” concept, it’s still a legal one.

by slondr 3y ago

bell-cot 3y ago
NOT true at all. Consider (say) a particular banana, in the hand of a particular hungry gorilla. That banana is the property of that gorilla. This concept of property is quite natural, and baked into the instincts and behaviors of animals far, far more simple than even the bottom end of the primates. Vs. even comprehending the concepts of copyright and intellectual property requires a very modern human education and worldview. (But consider how many $millions are paid to a great many lawyers, contingent on their managing to convince a great many people that those two very different concepts of "property" are the same, and a certain famous quote by Upton Sinclair.)
- tender_euler 3y ago
  I would say that banana is the property of the tree the gorilla "stole" it from. And I don't think animals see this banana as "property of the gorilla" as you suggested. I think they see it as "if I try to take this banana from that gorilla, I will get slapped"
  - simondotau 3y ago
    The bananas weren’t stolen, they were sold to the gorilla in return for seed distribution services. The tree wants the gorilla to distribute the banana seed within a fertiliser package (poop) some distance away. And the gorilla wants calories, which the tree can endlessly produce using solar power. It’s a fair trade.
  - bell-cot 3y ago
    Didn't the banana plant (not a tree, technically) produce that banana using nutrients stolen from the soil, carbon dioxide stolen from the air, energy stolen from the sun, etc.?
    - midoridensha 3y ago
      Exactly: the whole system is based on theft, and should be stopped.
- andrekandre 3y ago
  > That banana is the property of that gorilla. is there a semantically relevant distinction between property and possession? i might be inclined to have said "the gorilla is in possession of the banana" but im not sure about "property of"...?

> There may be many Teslas, but there is only one of your Tesla. That isn’t a “natural” concept, it’s still a legal one.

by slondr 3y ago

> There may be many Teslas, but there is only one of your Tesla. That isn’t a “natural” concept, it’s still a legal one.

bell-cot 3y ago

NOT true at all. Consider (say) a particular banana, in the hand of a particular hungry gorilla. That banana is the property of that gorilla. This concept of property is quite natural, and baked into the instincts and behaviors of animals far, far more simple than even the bottom end of the primates. Vs. even comprehending the concepts of copyright and intellectual property requires a very modern human education and worldview. (But consider how many $millions are paid to a great many lawyers, contingent on their managing to convince a great many people that those two very different concepts of "property" are the same, and a certain famous quote by Upton Sinclair.)

tender_euler 3y ago
I would say that banana is the property of the tree the gorilla "stole" it from. And I don't think animals see this banana as "property of the gorilla" as you suggested. I think they see it as "if I try to take this banana from that gorilla, I will get slapped"
- simondotau 3y ago
  The bananas weren’t stolen, they were sold to the gorilla in return for seed distribution services. The tree wants the gorilla to distribute the banana seed within a fertiliser package (poop) some distance away. And the gorilla wants calories, which the tree can endlessly produce using solar power. It’s a fair trade.
- bell-cot 3y ago
  Didn't the banana plant (not a tree, technically) produce that banana using nutrients stolen from the soil, carbon dioxide stolen from the air, energy stolen from the sun, etc.?
  - midoridensha 3y ago
    Exactly: the whole system is based on theft, and should be stopped.
andrekandre 3y ago
> That banana is the property of that gorilla. is there a semantically relevant distinction between property and possession? i might be inclined to have said "the gorilla is in possession of the banana" but im not sure about "property of"...?