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None of this is surprising and it is going to continue to get worse. I spent 4 years in Vietnam and 2 of those traveling 15,000km+ by motorbike (across Vietnam

None of this is surprising and it is going to continue to get worse. I spent 4 years in Vietnam and 2 of those traveling 15,000km+ by motorbike (across Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos). I've been to the remotest parts you can possibly get to and seen more than even the locals have of their own countries. All three of these countries are eco-nightmares. They've dammed up all the rivers in the north, which has affected just about everything. When the rivers are running during the wet season, there is plenty of power, but as soon as the dry season rolls around, entire rivers run dry. Only to have massive flooding when it rains again. Slash and burn entire mountains for farming, so that when it does rain, there are massive landslides. The trash and pollution is out of control. It is literally in the culture to use plastic, for everything and to just dump/burn it everywhere. There isn't a single place that isn't rife with trash. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love the country and the people are lovely. I just wish they cared about what they are doing to the planet a bit more. The government controls what the people think (case in point, the helmet "law") and abysmal education of their people. They could easily tell people to cut down their plastic/trash usage... or stop blocking all the rivers... but that's not in line with profit/corruption... so it won't ever happen.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
ip26 3y ago
When the rivers are running during the wet season, there is plenty of power, but as soon as the dry season rolls around, entire rivers run dry … It is literally in the culture to use plastic, for everything and to just dump/burn it everywhere Opportunity for community incinerator/generators that produce power burning discarded plastic…?
- giraffe_lady 3y ago
  I'm glad you've never been around a trash fire.
  - ip26 3y ago
    An incinerator is a significant improvement over an open pit burn, and trash incinerators are widely used in Europe.
    - latchkey 3y ago
      Incinerators require energy. This whole article is about how they don't have power.
xhevahir 3y ago
As far as I can tell it's China that's done the most to dam up the Mekong. On top of all the dams within their borders they've financed the building of still more downstream.
- latchkey 3y ago
  In Laos / Cambodia, it is 95% China to blame. Well, technically, it is Laos/Cambodia for selling out their country to China. China is building a silk road all the way to Sihanoukville. Google it, there are a ton of problems. I've seen them first hand. Total destruction of the land to build railways and roads, with zero care for the environment or the people living there. Vietnam isn't a fan of China, so there is less of the China dams in Vietnam. I'd put that blame solely on Vietnam.
blooalien 3y ago
> "but that's not in line with profit/corruption... so it won't ever happen." That right there is what saddens me more than almost anything else about modern "civilized society". Too much of humanity has come to not only accept that "profit/corruption at any cost is perfectly normal" mindset, but some actually even try to defend it. It's often the root cause of so many of humanity's worst nightmare scenarios (many of which are coming true "in realtime" these days), yet many of us will fight to the death against any change of the "status quo", despite the fact that it's highly likely to literally kill us all (as well as other life that lives here alongside us). Just because "it's always been done that way" (It hasn't, BTW. Constant change is more typically the normal state of reality, and it's pretty much always been that way.) doesn't mean it's ever been the right way or the best way.
- latchkey 3y ago
  The thing I learned living there is that there is corruption everywhere. It is in the US just as much as it is in Vietnam. It just takes different forms.
  - refurb 3y ago
    The US is nowhere close to the level of corruption in Vietnam. It’s pervasive in every police interaction, every interaction with government officials, to the point you cant get by day to day without paying bribes. Even in everyday things like getting a passport or registering your residence, let alone major interactions like buying a home or starting a business. And it’s widely accepted by both the people taking bribes and giving them that it’s just “how it is”. It’s upfront, in your face and very few think it’s a big deal. The US (or other Western countries) are nowhere close to that.
    - latchkey 3y ago
      To be 100% honest, I kind of appreciated it when I was there. It definitely reeked of 'white privilege' though. Need something done more quickly (or well)? Just hand someone some cash. I'd much rather just pay for a traffic ticket on the spot rather than deal with local city bureaucracy. In the end, it kind of keeps the wheels turning there. It really is just a different type of corruption. In the US, the bribes just come in the form of political donations, or giving someone's family member some work. I owned a bar/nightclub and we were expected to donate to the fireman's fund. I donated to Mark Leno too, despite not liking the guy at all. I mean, look at the people who got the contracts to build trump's border walls!
ClumsyPilot 3y ago
> It is literally in the culture to use plastic, for everything and to just dump/burn it everywhere. I think this allocation of blame is unfair. I moved from a developing country - the plastic culture originated from the west. The difference is that developing world does not have the massive taxpayer funded garbage collection that is present in the west. And does not have the rigorous fines for fly tipping. And cannot pay other developing countries, like Philippines, to illegally take our trash. Westerns norms are to offload the trash problem onto the taxpayer - we just don't realise we are subsidizing PepsiCo. The problem is hidden. And in India/Vietnam/etc. the taxpayer can't afford this subsidy, so the problem is plain to see. But both societies suffer. Once western industry adopts single use plastic everywhere, it is really difficult for a small developing country to avoid it. Firstly, half the products consumed in developing countries are produced by western companies, or designed by western companies and produced locally/in China, say Coke bottles. Even if you consider local manufacturing, imagine you are starting local production of cheese or whatever. You are going to import western industrial machinery, that is setup to package things into plastic. You are going to hire western consultant to help you configure the production line. You will import western best practices. You might even have to import packaging materials.
- reaperducer 3y ago
  I think this allocation of blame is unfair. I moved from a developing country - the plastic culture originated from the west He didn't assign blame; you did. All he did was observe the pretty commonly known fact that plastic pollution is out of control in the region. You're the one who started pointing fingers.
  - ClumsyPilot 3y ago
    > He didn't assign blame; you did. Perhaps it would be more appropriate to talk about cause and effect, not blame / morals > They could easily tell people to cut down their plastic/trash usage...Profit/corruption I don't think thks would work. I come from another region with the same problem. I know people who manage local factories that produce food and drink wrapped in single-use practic. They buy machines from Italy, they import bottles, caps, everything. Local suppliers look to what west does and they copy. Imagine that tomorrow, overnight, US and EU governments clamp down on their companies domestically and stop producing single use plastic. It will be gone from developing world withing a few years. I think the problem of plastic is problem of industry. It cannot be solved through invividual action. It has to be solved in the factories that produce this crap by the billions.
JCharante 3y ago
You’re mostly right but here’s a quick correction. Vingroup (technically a separate company does the real estate) has built many private neighborhoods where the roads are very clean and not full of trash and they are quickly expanding. I’m not saying it’s the solution, but if you have to be in a Vietnamese city then staying in these private “cities” is pretty nice.
- latchkey 3y ago
  > if you have to be in a Vietnamese city then staying in these private “cities” is pretty nice That has to be the most absurd piece of advice I've ever read on this site. Thanks for the laugh.
  - 31carmichael 3y ago
    Have you ever lived in Vietnam? Living in one of these areas is the only way to get away from the incessant noise.
    - latchkey 3y ago
      Read the OP's message?
cornfutes 3y ago
> the government controls what the people think (case in point, the helmet "law") This was a just a cash grab.
- latchkey 3y ago
  What was the cash grab here exactly? Who would have benefited? Wearing helmets is good for safety. That was the right thing to do. What they should have done was at least made a requirement for the quality level of helmets. Those plastic crap helmets everyone wears to comply with the 'law' (and I've been guilty of wearing them), don't do anything to protect you. What is more insane is how a single quack doctor was able to convince an entire country to not put helmets on young kids because it might hurt their necks. That's the real absurd thing here. The stupidity literally has studies done on it... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2678774/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2678774/ https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/22/4/233 https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/22/4/233

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

ip26 3y ago

When the rivers are running during the wet season, there is plenty of power, but as soon as the dry season rolls around, entire rivers run dry … It is literally in the culture to use plastic, for everything and to just dump/burn it everywhere Opportunity for community incinerator/generators that produce power burning discarded plastic…?

giraffe_lady 3y ago
I'm glad you've never been around a trash fire.
- ip26 3y ago
  An incinerator is a significant improvement over an open pit burn, and trash incinerators are widely used in Europe.
  - latchkey 3y ago
    Incinerators require energy. This whole article is about how they don't have power.

xhevahir 3y ago

As far as I can tell it's China that's done the most to dam up the Mekong. On top of all the dams within their borders they've financed the building of still more downstream.

latchkey 3y ago
In Laos / Cambodia, it is 95% China to blame. Well, technically, it is Laos/Cambodia for selling out their country to China. China is building a silk road all the way to Sihanoukville. Google it, there are a ton of problems. I've seen them first hand. Total destruction of the land to build railways and roads, with zero care for the environment or the people living there. Vietnam isn't a fan of China, so there is less of the China dams in Vietnam. I'd put that blame solely on Vietnam.

blooalien 3y ago

> "but that's not in line with profit/corruption... so it won't ever happen." That right there is what saddens me more than almost anything else about modern "civilized society". Too much of humanity has come to not only accept that "profit/corruption at any cost is perfectly normal" mindset, but some actually even try to defend it. It's often the root cause of so many of humanity's worst nightmare scenarios (many of which are coming true "in realtime" these days), yet many of us will fight to the death against any change of the "status quo", despite the fact that it's highly likely to literally kill us all (as well as other life that lives here alongside us). Just because "it's always been done that way" (It hasn't, BTW. Constant change is more typically the normal state of reality, and it's pretty much always been that way.) doesn't mean it's ever been the right way or the best way.

latchkey 3y ago
The thing I learned living there is that there is corruption everywhere. It is in the US just as much as it is in Vietnam. It just takes different forms.
- refurb 3y ago
  The US is nowhere close to the level of corruption in Vietnam. It’s pervasive in every police interaction, every interaction with government officials, to the point you cant get by day to day without paying bribes. Even in everyday things like getting a passport or registering your residence, let alone major interactions like buying a home or starting a business. And it’s widely accepted by both the people taking bribes and giving them that it’s just “how it is”. It’s upfront, in your face and very few think it’s a big deal. The US (or other Western countries) are nowhere close to that.
  - latchkey 3y ago
    To be 100% honest, I kind of appreciated it when I was there. It definitely reeked of 'white privilege' though. Need something done more quickly (or well)? Just hand someone some cash. I'd much rather just pay for a traffic ticket on the spot rather than deal with local city bureaucracy. In the end, it kind of keeps the wheels turning there. It really is just a different type of corruption. In the US, the bribes just come in the form of political donations, or giving someone's family member some work. I owned a bar/nightclub and we were expected to donate to the fireman's fund. I donated to Mark Leno too, despite not liking the guy at all. I mean, look at the people who got the contracts to build trump's border walls!

ClumsyPilot 3y ago

> It is literally in the culture to use plastic, for everything and to just dump/burn it everywhere. I think this allocation of blame is unfair. I moved from a developing country - the plastic culture originated from the west. The difference is that developing world does not have the massive taxpayer funded garbage collection that is present in the west. And does not have the rigorous fines for fly tipping. And cannot pay other developing countries, like Philippines, to illegally take our trash. Westerns norms are to offload the trash problem onto the taxpayer - we just don't realise we are subsidizing PepsiCo. The problem is hidden. And in India/Vietnam/etc. the taxpayer can't afford this subsidy, so the problem is plain to see. But both societies suffer. Once western industry adopts single use plastic everywhere, it is really difficult for a small developing country to avoid it. Firstly, half the products consumed in developing countries are produced by western companies, or designed by western companies and produced locally/in China, say Coke bottles. Even if you consider local manufacturing, imagine you are starting local production of cheese or whatever. You are going to import western industrial machinery, that is setup to package things into plastic. You are going to hire western consultant to help you configure the production line. You will import western best practices. You might even have to import packaging materials.

reaperducer 3y ago
I think this allocation of blame is unfair. I moved from a developing country - the plastic culture originated from the west He didn't assign blame; you did. All he did was observe the pretty commonly known fact that plastic pollution is out of control in the region. You're the one who started pointing fingers.
- ClumsyPilot 3y ago
  > He didn't assign blame; you did. Perhaps it would be more appropriate to talk about cause and effect, not blame / morals > They could easily tell people to cut down their plastic/trash usage...Profit/corruption I don't think thks would work. I come from another region with the same problem. I know people who manage local factories that produce food and drink wrapped in single-use practic. They buy machines from Italy, they import bottles, caps, everything. Local suppliers look to what west does and they copy. Imagine that tomorrow, overnight, US and EU governments clamp down on their companies domestically and stop producing single use plastic. It will be gone from developing world withing a few years. I think the problem of plastic is problem of industry. It cannot be solved through invividual action. It has to be solved in the factories that produce this crap by the billions.

JCharante 3y ago

You’re mostly right but here’s a quick correction. Vingroup (technically a separate company does the real estate) has built many private neighborhoods where the roads are very clean and not full of trash and they are quickly expanding. I’m not saying it’s the solution, but if you have to be in a Vietnamese city then staying in these private “cities” is pretty nice.

latchkey 3y ago
> if you have to be in a Vietnamese city then staying in these private “cities” is pretty nice That has to be the most absurd piece of advice I've ever read on this site. Thanks for the laugh.
- 31carmichael 3y ago
  Have you ever lived in Vietnam? Living in one of these areas is the only way to get away from the incessant noise.
  - latchkey 3y ago
    Read the OP's message?

cornfutes 3y ago

> the government controls what the people think (case in point, the helmet "law") This was a just a cash grab.

latchkey 3y ago
What was the cash grab here exactly? Who would have benefited? Wearing helmets is good for safety. That was the right thing to do. What they should have done was at least made a requirement for the quality level of helmets. Those plastic crap helmets everyone wears to comply with the 'law' (and I've been guilty of wearing them), don't do anything to protect you. What is more insane is how a single quack doctor was able to convince an entire country to not put helmets on young kids because it might hurt their necks. That's the real absurd thing here. The stupidity literally has studies done on it... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2678774/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2678774/ https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/22/4/233 https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/22/4/233