5 ms·

We all know the whole system is corrupt as hell but I hope this guy ends up not being ground to dust and that this helps temper some of carte blanche privilege

We all know the whole system is corrupt as hell but I hope this guy ends up not being ground to dust and that this helps temper some of carte blanche privilege of this magic card that has no legitimate reason to exist beyond "some animals are more equal than others." I wish they didn't try to shoehorn a racial element into this since it sounds idiotic. "More people with cards tend to be white and therefore the cards are racist" is such a weak take - there are more white people than minorities, for one. And of course there is structural racism that leads to more white people being in a position of power such that more white people are handed these cards but... you can't yell racism about every byproduct of structural racism with removing causality and intent from racism, which makes it completely illogical.

pjc50 3y ago
> And of course there is structural racism that leads to more white people being in a position of power such that more white people are handed these cards but... you can't yell racism about every byproduct of structural racism with removing causality and intent from racism "You can't yell racism about racism" is how the racism stays unfixed. There is a legitimate problem both philosophical and practical in untangling individual responsibility in a structurally racist system of power and policing, but I would be interested to see if any of the cardholders were black. (The cardholders, and anyone found issuing them, should obviously be jailed, regardless of how trivial the offence they're trying to get out of is, otherwise you're never going to restore public trust)
- ztrww 3y ago
  > but I would be interested to see if any of the cardholders were black So are you implying that black police officers don’t hand out these cards and/or black people refuse to accept them. This seems to be an issue almost entirely related to wealth/income inequality than anything else.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
Firadeoclus 3y ago
> "More people with cards tend to be white and therefore the cards are racist" is such a weak take - there are more white people than minorities, for one. But this is quite different from what the article actually says. What they're saying is P(Card|White) > P(Card|Minority), not P(White|Card) > P(Minority|Card). >> White drivers in the borough, the complaint said, “are significantly more likely to have courtesy cards than minority drivers”. As a result of a ticketing quota system, this means “police officers are forced to disproportionately ticket minority drivers”.
- tpoacher 3y ago
  Yes, so the argument is, if the main token influencing the posterior is the prior rather than the likelihood, then in the presence of such highly unequal priors, presenting unequal posteriors as strong evidence of unequal likelihoods is disingenuous, or weak argumentation at best. OP simply adds on top that it is also less useful (or even actively harmful) in the discussion, and does a disservice, because it serves to weaken the argument pool and desinsitize/polarize people to the topic in the long term. The quotes you quoted don't seem to contradict that view in any way. Having said that, I didn't feel that the article struck the wrong tone in flagging the inherent racial bias issues here. Specifically, they were very careful to avoid a "racist cops" / "racist cards" wording/angle, which is probably good reporting in this case, and I would argue should go some way towards alleviating OPs concerns.
mc32 3y ago
I’d also love to see every public official who has outstanding parking tickets forced to pay up. And also have no exemptions for private car parking tickets and not allow private use of public vehicles.
delfinom 3y ago
>but I hope this guy ends up not being ground to dust and that this helps temper some of carte blanche privilege of this magic card They buried the last NYPD whistleblower by throwing him into a mental institution against his will. Nothing has changed and I see it repeating

pjc50 3y ago

> And of course there is structural racism that leads to more white people being in a position of power such that more white people are handed these cards but... you can't yell racism about every byproduct of structural racism with removing causality and intent from racism "You can't yell racism about racism" is how the racism stays unfixed. There is a legitimate problem both philosophical and practical in untangling individual responsibility in a structurally racist system of power and policing, but I would be interested to see if any of the cardholders were black. (The cardholders, and anyone found issuing them, should obviously be jailed, regardless of how trivial the offence they're trying to get out of is, otherwise you're never going to restore public trust)

ztrww 3y ago
> but I would be interested to see if any of the cardholders were black So are you implying that black police officers don’t hand out these cards and/or black people refuse to accept them. This seems to be an issue almost entirely related to wealth/income inequality than anything else.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

Firadeoclus 3y ago

> "More people with cards tend to be white and therefore the cards are racist" is such a weak take - there are more white people than minorities, for one. But this is quite different from what the article actually says. What they're saying is P(Card|White) > P(Card|Minority), not P(White|Card) > P(Minority|Card). >> White drivers in the borough, the complaint said, “are significantly more likely to have courtesy cards than minority drivers”. As a result of a ticketing quota system, this means “police officers are forced to disproportionately ticket minority drivers”.

tpoacher 3y ago
Yes, so the argument is, if the main token influencing the posterior is the prior rather than the likelihood, then in the presence of such highly unequal priors, presenting unequal posteriors as strong evidence of unequal likelihoods is disingenuous, or weak argumentation at best. OP simply adds on top that it is also less useful (or even actively harmful) in the discussion, and does a disservice, because it serves to weaken the argument pool and desinsitize/polarize people to the topic in the long term. The quotes you quoted don't seem to contradict that view in any way. Having said that, I didn't feel that the article struck the wrong tone in flagging the inherent racial bias issues here. Specifically, they were very careful to avoid a "racist cops" / "racist cards" wording/angle, which is probably good reporting in this case, and I would argue should go some way towards alleviating OPs concerns.

mc32 3y ago

I’d also love to see every public official who has outstanding parking tickets forced to pay up. And also have no exemptions for private car parking tickets and not allow private use of public vehicles.

delfinom 3y ago

>but I hope this guy ends up not being ground to dust and that this helps temper some of carte blanche privilege of this magic card They buried the last NYPD whistleblower by throwing him into a mental institution against his will. Nothing has changed and I see it repeating