6 ms·

Any examples come to mind? I feel most people are pretty free to voice their thoughts

by dmbche 3y ago

mellosouls 3y ago
After years of people being genuinely damaged in their careers and reputation it is disappointing that these disingenuous questions ("sealioning") are still asked in threads like these. Here's a start for you: https://www.google.com/search?q=cancel+culture+examples https://www.google.com/search?q=cancel+culture+examples
- LeafItAlone 3y ago
  Is “cancel culture” itself just not another form of free speech?
  - mellosouls 3y ago
    Only in the sense "you're free to say only what I agree with"
    - LeafItAlone 3y ago
      Who is the “I”? Can one sole person single-handedly cancel another?
      - mellosouls 3y ago
        Sure, if they are powerful enough either individually or in influence, but cancel culture is generally a mob/groupthink activity.
  - cubefox 3y ago
    Firing someone over speech is not even a speech act. It's censorship.
    - LeafItAlone 3y ago
      Must a business remain associated with an individual who goes against their “brand” and whose views may be costing them sales?
      - cubefox 3y ago
        Are you claiming you are irresponsible for denouncing that individual in the first place in an attempt to get them fired?
- dmbche 3y ago
  Under what circumstances do you believe someone is to be fired from their job? I'm sure you will be able to argue that some forms of speech can fit that bill in some circumstances. Edit: I find it a little funny that all the examples at the top of this page ( godaddy, aunt jemima, urban outfitters and the like) are all still in operation, so I don't know how cancelled they got? All these stories sure sound like customers deciding to bring their business elsewhere after public relations debacles. This is not free speech related - it's just the free market baby
indy 3y ago
(At the risk of having my comment turn gray) The entire concept of "hate speech", the concept of "dead naming", anyone who thinks "words are violence" and therefore retaliation with physical violence is justified. These are all forms of attack upon free speech and there have been instances of these in universities for the past decade.
- nsajko 3y ago
  I agree that "dead naming" and other LGBT-related concepts are anti-intellectual, but it's not clear that any of your examples are at all related to free speech. A part of the problem is that "free speech" is mostly a buzzword, having no clear definition or meaning, except through case law.
  - indy 3y ago
    I think my examples are very clearly related to free speech. They are all examples of excuses or intimidation used to prevent people from speaking.
    - kaba0 3y ago
      You can speak, but attacking that other person by deliberately using something they don’t prefer is just inhumane. It’s not a difficult concept.
      - indy 3y ago
        God I wish I had enough privilege to consider using an unpreferred name as "inhumane"
        kaba0 3y ago
        Basic human decency doesn’t exist when you are poor or have not enough food, or what? I swear it’s the same people who couldn’t stand wearing a tiny cloth in front of their mouth because “mY FreEDOm”, endangering every other person. A little empathy goes a long way.
karaterobot 3y ago
Here ya go, I found one. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/08/30/more-so-than-adults-u-s-teens-value-people-feeling-safe-online-over-being-able-to-speak-freely/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/08/30/more-so-t... To be fair, I had to check out a few polling websites to find a study that said anything except that the vast majority of Americans support free speech. But, to be extra fair, most studies did not distinguish older versus younger Americans either. It's also worth noting that the difference between adults and teenagers isn't enormous, but it is significant. And this doesn't show changes over time. I'd say it's more meaningful if teenagers used to be more strongly in favor of free speech, and suddenly weren't. But, we don't know that from this article.
cubefox 3y ago
See https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/images/free-speech-survey/images/cato-free-speech-survey-overview-2.jpg https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/images/free-speech...

Any examples come to mind? I feel most people are pretty free to voice their thoughts

by dmbche 3y ago

Any examples come to mind? I feel most people are pretty free to voice their thoughts

After years of people being genuinely damaged in their careers and reputation it is disappointing that these disingenuous questions ("sealioning") are still asked in threads like these. Here's a start for you: https://www.google.com/search?q=cancel+culture+examples https://www.google.com/search?q=cancel+culture+examples

LeafItAlone 3y ago
Is “cancel culture” itself just not another form of free speech?
- mellosouls 3y ago
  Only in the sense "you're free to say only what I agree with"
  - LeafItAlone 3y ago
    Who is the “I”? Can one sole person single-handedly cancel another?
    - mellosouls 3y ago
      Sure, if they are powerful enough either individually or in influence, but cancel culture is generally a mob/groupthink activity.
- cubefox 3y ago
  Firing someone over speech is not even a speech act. It's censorship.
  - LeafItAlone 3y ago
    Must a business remain associated with an individual who goes against their “brand” and whose views may be costing them sales?
    - cubefox 3y ago
      Are you claiming you are irresponsible for denouncing that individual in the first place in an attempt to get them fired?
dmbche 3y ago
Under what circumstances do you believe someone is to be fired from their job? I'm sure you will be able to argue that some forms of speech can fit that bill in some circumstances. Edit: I find it a little funny that all the examples at the top of this page ( godaddy, aunt jemima, urban outfitters and the like) are all still in operation, so I don't know how cancelled they got? All these stories sure sound like customers deciding to bring their business elsewhere after public relations debacles. This is not free speech related - it's just the free market baby

indy 3y ago

(At the risk of having my comment turn gray) The entire concept of "hate speech", the concept of "dead naming", anyone who thinks "words are violence" and therefore retaliation with physical violence is justified. These are all forms of attack upon free speech and there have been instances of these in universities for the past decade.

nsajko 3y ago
I agree that "dead naming" and other LGBT-related concepts are anti-intellectual, but it's not clear that any of your examples are at all related to free speech. A part of the problem is that "free speech" is mostly a buzzword, having no clear definition or meaning, except through case law.
- indy 3y ago
  I think my examples are very clearly related to free speech. They are all examples of excuses or intimidation used to prevent people from speaking.
  - kaba0 3y ago
    You can speak, but attacking that other person by deliberately using something they don’t prefer is just inhumane. It’s not a difficult concept.
    - indy 3y ago
      God I wish I had enough privilege to consider using an unpreferred name as "inhumane"
      - kaba0 3y ago
        Basic human decency doesn’t exist when you are poor or have not enough food, or what? I swear it’s the same people who couldn’t stand wearing a tiny cloth in front of their mouth because “mY FreEDOm”, endangering every other person. A little empathy goes a long way.

karaterobot 3y ago

Here ya go, I found one. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/08/30/more-so-than-adults-u-s-teens-value-people-feeling-safe-online-over-being-able-to-speak-freely/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/08/30/more-so-t... To be fair, I had to check out a few polling websites to find a study that said anything except that the vast majority of Americans support free speech. But, to be extra fair, most studies did not distinguish older versus younger Americans either. It's also worth noting that the difference between adults and teenagers isn't enormous, but it is significant. And this doesn't show changes over time. I'd say it's more meaningful if teenagers used to be more strongly in favor of free speech, and suddenly weren't. But, we don't know that from this article.

cubefox 3y ago

See https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/images/free-speech-survey/images/cato-free-speech-survey-overview-2.jpg https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/images/free-speech...